# Maybe Chik-Fil-A and Dan Cathy aren't bigots? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361 "2013-02-05T04:12:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/141 "2013-02-07T17:31:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > More accurately, you find the idea of sharing an institution with gay people and only gay people distasteful. You want to be one of us. One of the norm. Even though you define yourself otherwise. You want to erase your gayness, at the expense of society. Self-loathing is the sort of thing therapy is for. Why should people give up anything to make you feel better about yourself? Oh, my god… **gelly’s** thrown it all away and joined the Freudians! Hell, yes, I refuse to accept a ghettoized pale copy of the actual societal recognition of my relationship. Nice try, though, thinking you can convince me I’m the gay equivalent of an “Oreo” or something. Amazingly childish thinking from a supposed adult… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/142 "2013-02-07T17:32:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > More accurately, you find the idea of sharing an institution with gay people and only gay people distasteful. You want to be one of us. One of the norm. Even though you define yourself otherwise. You want to erase your gayness, at the expense of society. Self-loathing is the sort of thing therapy is for. Why should people give up anything to make you feel better about yourself? Sharing an insitution is one thing-being restricted from one institution and restricted to another institution is entirely different. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/143 "2013-02-07T17:33:04Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > What what? My response was pretty clear, I thought. Are you going to pretend to be confused about it so you don’t have to respond to it now? You say something or other is proven and lapse into invective. I don’t think I can talk to you anymore. Go ahead and have the last word, you no doubt need it. hint: why don’t you say I can’t answer your brilliant questions and declare victory, lol ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/144 "2013-02-07T17:33:14Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Some societies have used race to restrict marriage. But race was not a part of the evolution of the institution. Physical gender was. I still keep marveling at how angry you all are. And that you think you are being helped by that. Anger and victimhood. How is race not part of the evolution of the institution? Again, you have to resort to utter nonsense in order to even try to make a point. I’m not angry, I just don’t have a lot of patience for someone offering drivel and calling it a rational argument. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/145 "2013-02-07T17:34:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Sharing an insitution is one thing-being restricted from one institution and restricted to another institution is entirely different. Is this going to lead to unisex bathrooms? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/146 "2013-02-07T17:34:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Because they are fundamentally different. I don’t know if that post was your best-argument, but either way, I think this first sentence is where we part. I don’t think the gender of the spouses is a fundmental part of marriage, I’d call it a distinction without a difference. Different terms from opposite-sex and same-sex marriages make as much sense as different terms for interracial marriages, interfaith marriages, different-handedness marriages, or any other variation of humanity. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > The same laws apply to cars, suvs and pickup trucks, but we give “them” different names. Those are inanimate objects. I told my car it didn’t have the right to a speedy trial this morning, it didn’t seem to care one way or another. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > You know, this is beginning to sound like the old days when many blacks accused other blacks of wanting to be white. I think if I were gay I wouldn’t want to emulate the heterosexual model. It’s not inherently heterosexual to marry someone; it’s really not a “heterosexual model”. > [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Here’s a thought - what if you take “marriage,” and “we” come up with something else? Would that be hypothetically acceptable? No, it’s the not literal word that matters, it’s equality. If you change the word marriage to Spousecontract, that’s fine as long as everyone can legally and equally get Spousecontracted. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/147 "2013-02-07T17:35:15Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > You say something or other is proven and lapse into invective. I don’t think I can talk to you anymore. Go ahead and have the last word, you no doubt need it. > > hint: why don’t you say I can’t answer your brilliant questions and declare victory, lol Yes, I’m sure that empty arguments (and worse, OLD empty arguments that everyone here has read before and most don’t find convincing) hurt me so much, coming from someone who joined the message board within the last week (or did you?). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/148 "2013-02-07T17:35:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That definition has changed before to fill the needs of a society, and it can(and will) change again. We can also change the meaning of pen to mean a carburetor. The fact is that although the definition of marriage has changed slightly over the millennia, in Western Society it has been largely and remarkably unchanging for hundreds and hundreds of years. Hell, even the Mormons saw the error of their ways and have given up the nonsense of polygamy. The very seem nonsense that **jayjay** thinks is just fine. As it no doubts adds to some colorful rainbow of wonderful choices. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/149 "2013-02-07T17:36:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yes, I’m sure that empty arguments (and worse, OLD empty arguments that everyone here has read before and most don’t find convincing) hurt me so much, coming from someone who joined the message board within the last week (or did you?). **jayjay** , don’t accuse other posters of breaking the rules in GD - or anywhere outside the Pit. Put it in a thread report and leave it to the mods. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/150 "2013-02-07T17:36:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > We disagree on the meaning of gibberish. Mine agrees with the dictionary. The reason I gave is straight-forward and crystal clear. If you have a problem with a particular part of it, I’d be glad to help. The dictionary isn’t the arbiter of rights. In the fifth century the dictionary definition of marriage in Europe would have been very different to what you advocate. Why then, do you think the dictionary definition is somehow the binding force? The dictionary describes rights as they are enacted by society, it doesn’t grant them. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/151 "2013-02-07T17:37:10Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > How is race not part of the evolution of the institution? Again, you have to resort to utter nonsense in order to even try to make a point. > > I’m not angry, I just don’t have a lot of patience for someone offering drivel and calling it a rational argument. It’s pretty obvious biologically what the engine behind marriage being inherently man and woman. If you are saying marriage evolved to keep races apart, you’re going to have to support that. Also, when you call someones position drivel, that’s anger. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/152 "2013-02-07T17:39:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > More accurately, you find the idea of sharing an institution with gay people and only gay people distasteful. You want to be one of us. One of the norm. Even though you define yourself otherwise. You want to erase your gayness, at the expense of society. Self-loathing is the sort of thing therapy is for. Why should people give up anything to make you feel better about yourself? Is that why the Montgomery Bus Boycott occured, the black riders found riding in a section with other black people distasteful? People dislike being segregated, either physically or in legal institutions. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/153 "2013-02-07T17:39:27Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > You say something or other is proven and lapse into invective. I don’t think I can talk to you anymore. Go ahead and have the last word, you no doubt need it. > > hint: why don’t you say I can’t answer your brilliant questions and declare victory, lol Well, seems like you’ve got **jayjay** down. It really is a waste of time. The funny thing is that that is the complaint he levels against me and others. Translation: “How dare you not be sway to see things my way?!! You, you, Hetero, you.” Rich stuff. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/154 "2013-02-07T17:41:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hell, even the Mormons saw the error of their ways and have given up the nonsense of polygamy. The very seem nonsense that **jayjay** thinks is just fine. As it no doubts adds to some colorful rainbow of wonderful choices. :rolleyes: I didn’t say I think it’s fine. I said I don’t CARE. And yes, that’s essentially a selfish approach, but you know what? I. Don’t. Care. I’m working on MY rights at the moment. When I HAVE my rights, legally, then I may hook up with the polyamory groups and help them. But essentially, right now, I’m busy with my own problems, because people like you are trapped in amber and think everyone else should be, too. But the truth is, and I know this hurts, but let me point to the previous paragraph and repeat, I don’t care, that at some very near future point, you’re going to be as relevant as the individual bee or mosquito or wasp or whatever in any given piece of amber. The world will go on ahead of you, whether you step aside or it has to roll over top, and you’ll be left behind, to join the ranks of people like Bull Connor and Orval Faubus and George Wallace in the collective mind of future generations. You’ve lost already. You just don’t accept that yet. ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/155 "2013-02-07T17:41:35Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I don’t know if that post was your best-argument, but either way, I think this first sentence is where we part. I don’t think the gender of the spouses is a fundmental part of marriage, I’d call it a distinction without a difference. Different terms from opposite-sex and same-sex marriages make as much sense as different terms for interracial marriages, interfaith marriages, different-handedness marriages, or any other variation of humanity. > No, it’s the not literal word that matters, it’s equality. If you change the word marriage to Spousecontract, that’s fine as long as everyone can legally and equally get Spousecontracted. I’m assuming everyone could get spousecontracted, we’ve being calling it civil union. Am I correct that even if all unions were regarded as civil unions, you would still object to any terminology that differentiated by virtue of the physical gender makeup of the union? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/156 "2013-02-07T17:41:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > We can also change the meaning of pen to mean a carburetor. The fact is that although the definition of marriage has changed slightly over the millennia, in Western Society it has been largely and remarkably unchanging for hundreds and hundreds of years. Hell, even the Mormons saw the error of their ways and have given up the nonsense of polygamy. The very seem nonsense that **jayjay** thinks is just fine. As it no doubts adds to some colorful rainbow of wonderful choices. :rolleyes: [Loving vs. Virginia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_vs._Virginia) was 1967. It has not been unchanging for hundreds and hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/157 "2013-02-07T17:41:57Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > The same laws apply to cars, suvs and pickup trucks, but we give “them” different names. If you’re going to play at metaphors, get them right. We have different common names for different forms of vehicle. Just like you can still call a gay marriage a “gay marriage” if you want. In laws, these vehicles are all referred to with a single name: vehicles (or motor vehicles). So…exactly the opposite of what you’re trying to imply. The only situations in which individual vehicle types ARE distinguished is when special (discriminatory?) laws apply to certain types, such as laws written regarding the use of the cargo area of pickup trucks. Hence, those of us who advocate marriage equality are a little suspicious when folks say, “nah, we’ll give it a totally separate legal name, but don’t worry; we promise it’ll be equal and stay that way.” It’s increasingly clear that your main concern here is that you don’t want to share your precious institutional name with the gays. Fine. I’m a straight married man. Two months after my wedding, I was happy to attend my best man’s wedding. To his husband. If you don’t want to share, that’s fine. I do. I own “marriage” just as much as you (maybe more? are you married?). And so do more and more of my friends. And we’re just going to outvote you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/158 "2013-02-07T17:43:44Z")
> [@Shiloh2013](#): > > Also, when you call someones position drivel, that’s anger. Or dismissal. Or a recognition of fact. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/159 "2013-02-07T17:43:45Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [Loving vs. Virginia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_vs._Virginia) was 1967. It has not been unchanging for hundreds and hundreds of years. But race isn’t relevant! Mostly because it weakens **gelly’s** argument horribly… ---
**Author:** ![Shiloh2013](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@Shiloh2013](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shiloh2013)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361/160 "2013-02-07T17:43:56Z")
My titles all say sedan or suv or pickup truck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-chik-fil-a-and-dan-cathy-arent-bigots/649361.md?page=9)