Supernatural, invincible, and able to transcend time and space. Hmmm, sounds pretty god-like to me. So, the Mormons are right, after all!
I see it now. Big movie screens and screaming infants and pagan children kicking the back of your chair. Popcorn with maggots and flem. People will be smoking and mothers breastfeeding their babies. God will be on the screen–zoom in to a c/u–he will turn and say, "Aren’t you sorry now? For the rest of eternity you will watch something like The Truman Show and Leave it to Beaver. Those in heaven will laugh it off knowing that those in hell are watching them in paradise.
Hey Arg, how about a cite from the Bible, saying that humans will be invincible, nonphysical beings?
IIRC, Revelation talks about the city of God in terms as though it were an actual, physical city. It even gives measurements of its size-- 144,000 cubits square is the number that comes to mind, but I’m not sure whether that’s correct.
(I used to be a devout Catholic, and dated a Jehovah’s Witness for several months. We had some interesting arguments about the Bible, let me tell you.)
Let’s all make a pact right now. When we find ourselves together in hell, we’ll stage a coup and take over. We’ll bring in some air conditioners, set the place up nice. Nothing to stop us; now who’s with me?
You want some quotes from the Bible, I’ll give you some. In the second chapter of Acts the apostle Peter quotes Psalm 16:10. One inference of this passage is that Jesus Christ was there himself, so I don’t buy the notion that "hell"is a place of eternal fiery torture. In the 9th chapter of Ecclesiastes it says “the dead are conscious of nothing.” More to the point, there are 66 occurrences of the Hebrew word “sheol” in the Old Testament; in the King James Version, the Living Bible, Moffatt, and many other translations into English, “sheol” is not translated consistently with "hell"or any other english word; much the same is true with two Greek words, “Hades” and “Geenna,” in the New Testament. Surprisingly enough, no passage in the Bible says the Devil or demons are in Hades or Gehenna.
ARG- sorry I misinterpreted your “invincible” with “invisible”. I think it was your spelling that threw me. 
Here’s a question: will the occupants of heaven have knowledge of the suffering of those in hell? Say you’re in heaven and you can’t find your mom there. Wouldn’t it then be logical to assume that she’s in hell? How would it be possible to enjoy heaven, knowing your loved ones (or even non-loved ones) were being tortured?
Personally, I’d choose to be in hell because it would be unbearable for me to be in heaven while anyone else, even someone I’d never met, was suffering.
Along that line, how could a loving god be content knowing his “children” are suffering?
I’ve done some research on Jehovah’s Witnesses and the one doctrine of theirs that makes sense to me is that hell as a place of eternal torment does not exist. They interpret “sheol” as the grave, meaning the dead are just simply dead.
Which is why I mentioned Psalm 16:10, as quoted by the Apostle Peter in Acts Chapter 2. In the Douay Bible (Book of Genesis), where Jacob thought Joseph was dead, he expected he might someday join Joseph in “hell.” In all but 3 places in the Douay Bible (rendered from the Latin Vulgate), the Latin infernus/inferus is rendered “hell”; I seriously doubt that Jacob thought Joseph had gone there, nor did he expect to go there someday himself. (See also Job 14:13, in any translation.)
“So it will be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.” 1 Corinthians 15:42-44
“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. for the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.” 1 Cor. 15:51-54
The New Jerusalem is what you’re thinking of Auraseer. It is the main city of heaven, and will be enormous. It’s a walled city, with twelve gates, representing the Twelve Tribes of Israel. It’s laid out like a square, and it’s 12,000 stadia in length, width, and highth. That’s about 1,400 miles! And the wall is 200 feet thick. (All info taken from Revelation chapter 21)
Holly asked:
Yes, I believe so. There is a judgement in heaven called the Great White Throne judgement. Everybody who has ever lived will be present. An angel will check to see if individuals have their names written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. If their names are not written, then they will be cast into hell. Now most scholars believe that Christians will not have to endure this test, since salvation means you’re name is written down. However, it is logical, that Christians will be witness to the GWT judgement, and therefore know who goes to hell, and who doesn’t.
We will be so busy in heaven, and we’ll be living in absolute paradise. There is also no sadness and no pain in heaven. I honestly don’t think we’ll be capable of remorse, or regret in heaven. So basically, you’d have NO trouble enjoying heaven.
Well, it’s not His children who are suffering. Although God created every one of us, those who are not saved are not considered God’s. Hell is a place for the ungodly. They are being punished there.
Adam
Adam:
You mean you have to live in a gated community when you die? This qualifies as another reason I wouldn’t much care for it.
Inre whether those in heaven would be aware of what was going on in hell:
Adam, as you’ve no doubt noticed, I do not know a great deal about the type of Christianity that you practice. That said, what are you referring to with the “Great White Throne judgement”? It sounds a bit ominous.
And inre how one could stand knowing that friends and loved ones were in hell:
“So don’t you feel much better now?” Really, Adam, this is by far one of the most naive, IMHO, things that I’ve seen from you. “I know that your sad because your mother didn’t make the cut, but don’t worry, be happy!”
Holly asked:
Adam replied:
So your deity gets to create everyone, but doesn’t have to accept those whom he feels are unworthy? Sounds like a politicians wet dream.
Well, and those whose beliefs are not in total lockstep with your own.
Seriously, Adam, do you actually believe that heaven will only be populated only by those who do now, and always have, believed exactly as you do? Who will you have a conversation with?
Waste
Flick Lives!
Waste -
I’m dreging up long-forgotten Sunday school lessons for this, but IIRC, the “White Throne Judgement” is when God and Jesus will sit on thrones and have a list of the “saved” in front of them. Everyone will be required to come before God and He will determine where they go.
As for people suffering, Adam sez:
So wait. (And I know this has been asked before, folks, but I’m a-trying again.) What about babies who died before baptism? And people who were born before Jesus? And people who are unable to recognize ANY religion due to handicaps? Will your God send them to hell through no fault of their own? And yes, it is your God here. I refuse to worship a God who would do that to innocent people.
Also, this gives me a chance to ask Adam something I’ve been wondering for a while, even thought I know I’m going to regret this. Adam, do you think Revelations is a LITERAL account of what will happen? The four horsemen coming, the dragons in the sky, etc. Personally, I’ve always thought John was high on something when he wrote it, but do you actually take it seriously?
Everybody in a long line waiting to get to one Great White Throne? That ain’t hell, it’s the ladies’ room at intermission!
I wanted to make sure everyone got a chance to see this again. It illustrates better than anything else what a sick, twisted theology this individual believes in.
Just a short addition based on comments earlier in the thread:
I think the ideas of playing harps on clouds and cherubim looking like babies is a case of artistic license by painters etc. I don’t believe the Bible represents heaven or angels in this manner. I might be wrong.
I believe what the Bible says about hell but Dante’s version seems pretty just in its punishments.
Okay - continue your debate. I’m outta here.
No. Maybe you didn’t read how big the New Jerusalem is. It’s 1,400 miles in width, and length. This is just a wild guess, but I’ll bet that’s around the size of all the U.S. west of the Mississippi. (not including AK) So, it’s a little bigger than “a gated community.”
The GWT judgement is found in Revelation chapter 20.
11. “Then I saw a great white throne and Him who was seated on it…
12. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened which is the Book of Life. The dead are judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books…
15. If anyone’s name was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” Revelation 20: 11,12,15
No. I’ve gone over this many times before. Actually, I’ve gone over it TOO many times. Heaven will be populated by those who’ve been saved. And I’ve already given all of you countless verses on what being saved means, and how to become saved.
Now, some of you have mocked my response to Holly. So, I’ll try again. While refering to God’s people in heaven, Revelation 21:4 says, “He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
Isaiah tells even more about the New Heaven, and New Earth (i.e. heaven as we all know it).
“Behold, I will create a new heaven, and a new earth. the former things will not be remembered, now will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create, for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight, and it’s people a joy.” Isaiah 65:17-18
Is that response better for you guys? You won’t be sad that you’re Mom’s in hell, because, you will be INCAPABLE of feeling sadness, and pain. What other way can I explain it?
Falcon asked:
Well Falcon, that’s a really good question, and I’m glad you asked. I’ve head so many “interpretations” of Revelation that it’s not even funny. MY personal belief is that all of the prophecies will come to pass. Nearly the entire book of Revelation is a vision of the apostle John.
Let me give you a quick example of what I’ve heard about this book. In chapter 9, verse 3 it says, “And out of the smoke locusts came down upon the earth, and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.” The it goes on to describe the locusts. It says their “faces resembled human faces.” They had “breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle.”
Now, I’ve heard that the “locusts” were actually Apache attack helicopters, and the “sting” that they gave was really missiles fired at people. So, whether they are really bugs, or choppers, I have this to say:
“I warn anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.” Rev. 22:18
In other words, read the book, but don’t make up fanciful stories about it.
Adam
Bunnygirl says:
You’re absolutely right Bunny. The Bible does mention angels and music. But angels are powerful beings. Cherubs are described in Ezekiel chapter 1. I’d rather not quote the whole chapter, but to parphrase, the cherubs flash with light, and speed like lighting. They have many wings, and four faces, and they looked like glowing fire.
Basically, they aren’t three feet tall, and they don’t have chubby little bodies.
Adam
Just what I want to see at the pearly gates: an angel acting like a snotty waiter. That would be Pooch, p-o-o-c-h, I’ve made several reservations during times of dire straits. Hhhmpf…nyet, I’m afraid you will have to go to hell and be tortured for eternity. Next! It’s Ghandi…g-h-a-n-d-i. Sorry, two non-believers to beam down!! Next! Dahlmer, Jeffery. Ohhhh, Jeffery!! Seems like you repented just in time, entre! entre!
Sounds ghastly. What is your god running? Lobotomies R Us? You’re making Hell look better and better, Adam.
Jess
Full of 'satiable curtiosity
Jill,
It would be something like this (on meeting the Kennedy’s in Heaven):
You: John, Robert!!! Nice to see you here!! Wow!! Looks like the whole clan made it!!
John: We are good Catholics!! Are you alone?
You: (cheerfully) Yes!! My father was a drunk and killed himself!! My mother lost her faith after that (big smiles all around)!!!
Robert: Well, look what the cat dragged in!!! Jon-jon, where’s the Mrs?
Jon-jon: She was rather ticked off that I was flying at all. Took the lords name in vain the entire way down.
Rose: Do you think Ted will make it?
Everybody: (cheerfully) Who cares!!!
You: Golly, considering I’ve lost the capacity to feel sadness for my parents eternal torture, I am happy. (smiles and waves to parents in hell).
Adam: how can you make that declaration above about the Book of Mormon? Especially after you’ve said you’ve never read it and never will. Therefore, you don’t personally know what it does and doesn’t say. Heck, you’ve already proven you don’t know to which tome you refer (see above where I mention in which volume the Book of Abraham is to be found). You say it contradicts the Bible? Point being? The Bible contradicts itself, you know.
Maybe, after all, you don’t know.
To Monty (no kin): In reference to the Book of Mormon, if you know it well, compare some verses (particularly in 2 and 3 Nephi) to Matthew and Malachi. Case in point: In modern Jewish Scripture translations, the book of Malachi, while it contains the same text that appears in Christian Bibles, is divided into three chapters, not four. Before the invention of printing, in medieval times, there were no chapter or verse divisions, let alone even spaces between words; though the ninth-century Masoretic Text did add verse divisions for convenience. However, 3 Nephi, allegedly much older than Malachi (about 4th Century B.C.), DOES make the division between third and fourth chapters in Malachi–in the same place as the King James Version does in Malachi. I also find it interesting that, although the “Old Testament” is attested to by over 1,700 ancient texts, complete or not, and the “New Testament” is supported by over ten thousand complete or partial texts, NO such textual support is available for the Book of Mormon, certainly insofar as access to such text by non-Mormon scholars is concerned. To me this is like hiding your light under a bushel-basket.