# Maybe she should wish for Birth Control for Christmas **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 26, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466 "2003-11-26T22:28:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/81 "2003-12-02T04:52:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jlzania \* > \*\*Now, I’m no expert **SuperNova** but I have read a number of studies on young unwed mothers and there does seem to be a underlying attitude that the baby will fufill some emotional vacuum in the mother’s lives. > Sorry but I don’t have the cites off hand. > > I have personally met two teenage mothers who, when questioned as to why they decided to keep the babies both answered “So I’ll have some one to love me unconditionally.” > Well, to be honest, they didn’t use the word unconditionally but the meaning was pretty damn clear. > One has since discovered that an infant is indeed a tremendous amount of work and has abrogated most of the responsibilty to her parents. > The other married and is struggling to make ends meet , both economically and emotionally. > You see, from what I could deduce, those girls were both pretty clueless about of how much effort and commitment it really takes to raise a child. > That’s one of the reasons that a number of high schools have started the program where kids are forced to take care of a sack of sugar or an egg etc. in parenting classes. \*\* Logically I still say they take more than they give. But I see what you’re saying. I’ll accept that the mothers think that the babies will fill an emotional void. It makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/82 "2003-12-02T18:23:23Z")
Our local paper does something similar every Xmas…called Operation Santa. It’s full of stories about people who are too poor to afford presents. I don’t have a problem with the father who can’t work due to his diabetes…or the grandmother trying to raise the six children her convict daughter bore…but stories like this just want to make me punch something. No welfare for extra babies…then just see how quick that shuts their legs. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/83 "2003-12-02T18:30:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by nyctea scandiaca \* > \*\*That baby factory disgusts me. I wouldn’t doubt it if each child was by a different father. This woman should be required to be on birth control or get “fixed” in order to keep receiving assistance. Having children is not a right, because you don’t have the right to use my taxes to raise a litter of fatherless children. You don’t have the right to put such a burden on society. And in the long run, these children will end up costing society much more…it’s likely they will become single teen parents themselves; it’s likely they too will be poor; it’s likely they won’t go to college; it’s probable some of them will end up in prison. The list could go on. Society would only benefit if we mandated birth control for people who cannot support their children. In order to receive your check, you should be checked by a doctor once a month to make sure you’re on birth control. (Norplant dart gun isn’t a bad idea.) > > And as stupid as this woman seems to be, I don’t think that is really the type of genetic stock that should be carried on. > > One other thought: why does the state continue to cut this woman checks instead of tracking down the deadbeat dads and forcing them to pay? Truly disgusting. \*\* Sigh. This is exactly the kind of disgusting attitude that I had in mind when I wrote my hyperbolic post of the previous page. You, nyctea, disgust me a great deal more than the subject of the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/84 "2003-12-02T18:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*Sigh. > > This is exactly the kind of disgusting attitude that I had in mind when I wrote my hyperbolic post of the previous page. You, nyctea, disgust me a great deal more than the subject of the OP. \*\* Not that I am defending him (her?), but what are the exact points that were made that you disagree with? As near as I can tell, most of the ‘likely to’ statements are supported by current stats, and frankly, tracking down deadbeat dads sems like a great idea to me. And in cases such as this, I can’t find too much to debate in whether some sort of birth control should be mandated for further support. Of course, I’m still confused as to how this woman still has custody of all of her kids in a space that small, especially being on public assistance. I’m not a fan of the foster system, but it seems like it would be in the kids’ interest to split them up into less crowded homes. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/85 "2003-12-02T18:59:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stonebow \* > \*\*Not that I am defending him (her?), but what are the exact points that were made that you disagree with? . . . \*\* [ul]_[li]I wouldn’t doubt it if each child was by a different father. [_]This woman should be required to be on birth control or get “fixed” in order to keep receiving assistance.[/li][li]Having children is not a right . . .[/li][li]it’s likely they will become single teen parents themselves[/li][li]it’s likely they too will be poor[/li][li]it’s likely they won’t go to college[/li][li]it’s probable some of them will end up in prison[/li][li]Society would only benefit if we mandated birth control for people who cannot support their children[/li][li]In order to receive your check, you should be checked by a doctor once a month to make sure you’re on birth control[/li][li]Norplant dart gun isn’t a bad idea[/li][_]I don’t think that is really the type of genetic stock that should be carried on_[/ul]Charming. I feel dirty just reading it again. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/86 "2003-12-02T19:11:53Z")
Sadly, **lissener** , these… [QUOTE] \*\*[ul]_[li]it’s likely they will become single teen parents themselves[/li][li]it’s likely they too will be poor[/li][li]it’s likely they won’t go to college[/li][li]it’s probable some of them will end up in prison_[/ul] \*\*[/li][/QUOTE] …are indeed likely. Without a strong positive external influence or influences, and especially if (as may also be the case) their school is typical of schools in poorer communities, the children are not likely to break out of their current situation. OTOH, I’m not sure there’s any evidence at all to suggest that reducing or removing benefits would have any effect at all on people like this woman except to make her situation more wretched. ---
**Author:** ![Creative\_Munster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Creative\_Munster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Creative_Munster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/87 "2003-12-02T19:13:37Z")
You disagree with all those points? Would you like to elaborate as to why you disagree with them? ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/88 "2003-12-02T19:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Charming. I feel dirty just reading it again. \*\* Yeah, well, welcome to reality, Sunshine. Unfortunately, while occasionally a bit hyperbolic, the statistics support each of those statements. If somebody was keeping ten mother-fucking _cats_ in a one bedroom apartment, most people would question both their living conditions and her mental stability – and no one would argue that she wasn’t, at best, an irresponsible goofus. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/89 "2003-12-02T19:21:43Z")
That kind of reactionary, redneck eugenics is far more horrifying to me than the occasional rare exception to the rule who is held up as a poster child for “welfare mothers.” As difficult as the lives of those particular kids are “likely” to be, I sincerely hope they never come into close contact with someone as hateful as nyctea. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/90 "2003-12-02T19:31:18Z")
I can’t get past the idea of 11 people in a one-bedroom apartment. What kind of social services department allows that? Where are all the kids sleeping? In sleeping bags on the floor? On sofas? Are they stacked in five sets of bunkbeds in the one bedroom? What kind of appaling living condtions are they really living in? How can anyone justify _ **eleven** _ people in a one-bedroom apartment?!? ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/91 "2003-12-02T19:38:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*As difficult as the lives of those particular kids are “likely” to be, I sincerely hope they never come into close contact with someone as hateful as nyctea. \*\* Once again, much of this is **nyctea’s** battle to fight. But I’ll weigh in as someone that grew up in a neighborhood where this was not an uncommon thing. I am a left-liberal. Very big government. Very much in favor of a safety net. Even for people like these. But I’m not a saint. It gets damn frustrating sometimes to advance the position that everyone should be afforded a minimum standard of living when some people choose to abuse what support there is. Yes, having more children in a case like this is abuse- of the system, of the children involved, and it sickens me. She can fuck whoever she wants. But it seems criminal to keep popping kids out like this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/92 "2003-12-02T19:43:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Truth Seeker \* > > * * * > > Yeah, well, welcome to reality, Sunshine. > > Unfortunately, while occasionally a bit hyperbolic, the statistics support each of those statements. > > If somebody was keeping ten mother-fucking _cats_ in a one bedroom apartment, most people would question both their living conditions and her mental stability – and no one would argue that she wasn’t, at best, an irresponsible goofus. \*\* And what gives you the right to decide what she does or doesn’t do as responsible or not? Because .0001 cent of your tax dollar goes to support her and people like her, as opposed to… what? Repainting a government building? **lissener** is dead on. The attitude that “because my tax money _might_ be used to help her, I demand that she be sterilized and forced to give up her kids” is sickening. Do you think the government spends less money on people like you through student loans and mortgage tax breaks? Keep in mind this- just as you are demanding she be sterilized for having kids who you are sure will be a drain on society, so too did Americans demand that others be sterilized for little more than being epileptic, and under laws passed in the late teens and early '20’s, over 60,000 Americans were sterilized. A law was entertained in the New York legislature that would have banned people with vision defect- including nearsightedness- from being able to marry. All this in the name of the almighty “saving of the taxpayer’s money”. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/93 "2003-12-02T19:45:16Z")
So, Stone, how big of a problem is this? Are you sickened on behalf of her children, or on behalf of the taxpayers? Most of the outrage in this thread is because of the money she’s getting, not because of the kids’ condition. What’re the breakdowns; what’s the average number of children of “welfare mothers”? Is she an exception, as I strongly suspect, and just grist for the neocon propaganda mill? or is she representative of the ills of the larger system? Most people here have assumed the latter; I assume the former. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/94 "2003-12-02T19:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BiblioCat \* > \*\*I can’t get past the idea of 11 people in a one-bedroom apartment. What kind of social services department allows that? Where are all the kids sleeping? In sleeping bags on the floor? On sofas? > Are they stacked in five sets of bunkbeds in the one bedroom? > What kind of appaling living condtions are they really living in? > > How can anyone justify _ **eleven** _ people in a one-bedroom apartment?!? \*\* My thoughts exactly. Regardless of all other issues surrounding this, it really seems like it is impossible for this situation to be healthy for the kids. Child Services should be stepping in… On a different note, I think it’s interesting how the article linked in the OP actually seemed to be a positive article about a woman’s struggle. I wish I knew more about the writer of the article, Stacy Day. I really don’t like how the story was presented. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/95 "2003-12-02T19:52:27Z")
Just out of curiousity…if she’s living in a one bedroom apartment and she’s not working to stay home with the kids… How the blue FUCK does she have the privacy to screw some guy to get pregnant? Unless Mama is watching the kids while she’s out getting her jollies. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/96 "2003-12-02T19:56:17Z")
Hmm. Turns out she’s an [exception](http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/ofa/cfc_fy96.htm), and _not_ a poster child. Just another rightwing bogey to scare the much abused taxpayer. Spare me. Frankly, the overwhelming consensus of viciousness in this thread disgusts me not a little; I’d’ve thought better of this community. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/97 "2003-12-02T20:00:24Z")
Hmmm… searching a little bit on the news website (once again answering my own question) it seems that Stacy Day just writes a whole lot of sentimental stuff for the paper. If anyone’s interested, here are some links to her articles. [Local family dreams of home of its own](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1070350226307340.xml) [Dad hopes to be able to afford a tree](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1070262090191210.xml) [Caring for family a blessing to woman](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1070175974192850.xml) [Job cutback hampers family’s holiday](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/107008913483760.xml) [Homeless mom seeks new start](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1070000742312950.xml) [Dad stays busy with two small children](http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-1/1069917559320700.xml) Some of them are actually kind of nice articles. But they are all chock full of annoying sentimental tug-at-your-heartstrings writing. I honestly can’t stand writing like this. It’s just not real news. Oh well. I guess if there was no one who enjoyed it, it wouldn’t be in the paper. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/98 "2003-12-02T20:03:44Z")
Oh. Well, in that case some of the facts might be invented, these agony aunt columnists aren’t held to the same standard. Maybe she inherited some kids from her sisters or something. But still she shouldn’t keep them in a one-bedroom place. ---
**Author:** ![SuperNova](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@SuperNova](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperNova)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/99 "2003-12-02T20:11:11Z")
Agony aunt columnists. Never heard that before, but it’s fitting. I was wondering about the accuracy of the facts also, though I doubt she “inherited” kids from anyone. Otherwise that would’ve been mentioned in the article, seeing as the article was trying to arouse sympathy for her. If she took on 8 kids who weren’t her own, I would indeed feel for her. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466/100 "2003-12-02T20:12:26Z")
Lissener, I find the viciousness completely understandable. Nobody want to be taken advantage of, especially when they’re trying to be charitable. Popping out that many babies when you are living completely on the public dole seems an awful lot like taking advantage of others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-she-should-wish-for-birth-control-for-christmas/215466.md?page=6)