# Maybe We Should Start With Senator Reid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130 "2006-10-12T00:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kurilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ea5d25/32.png) [@kurilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kurilla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/41 "2006-10-12T19:14:27Z")
[QUOTE=Otto] By what mechanism may a state recall a senator? [/QUOTE] While Nevada allows recalls of state officials, I believe that no recalls are permitted in the Federal system. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/42 "2006-10-12T19:19:50Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] **Maybe We Could Start With Rep. Ney**?[Ney, still collecting federal salary, to appear in court this week](http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/101106/ney.html) This is the sort of no brainer that everyone should be able to agree on, but apparently _not_. [/QUOTE] Wait, what are we supposed to agree on? I agree that Ney could be removed from office by a 2/3 vote in the House. But given that we’re having an election in a few weeks, doesn’t that make it pretty much moot? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/43 "2006-10-12T19:53:04Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] What is it about Democrats that makes many of us not only completely fucking credulous about things like this but also ready to jump on the bandwagon and spread the fucking bullshit? Think back to the 2000 election. All it took for many Democrats was the assertion that Al Gore claimed to have invented the internet, and they were nodding right along with it, saying “Yeah, that’s not good!” [/QUOTE] To be fair to those who joined in the pile-on on Gore, in 2000 few of us had any idea what a bunch of credulous morons repeating GOP talking points so many of the Washington press corps were, and how they tilted the entire narrative of the 2000 campaign. Now, many of us have learned, and those who have a Web connection and some time on their hands have no excuse for having _not_ learned. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/44 "2006-10-12T20:13:34Z")
It find it very reassuring that this is the worst (new) dirt the GOP has been able to dig up on Dems. I know they’ve been working tirelessly, night and day, to find something… _anything_ to deflect the public attention away from themselves. My outrage meter did not even flinch on this. Admittedly, I’m biased. But I doubt it would flinch even if this were a Republican Senator. This seems like an extremly technical violation of the law and I fail to see how violating it gave Reid any personal gain whatsoever. I would welcome anyone who wants to show otherwise. I wonder what other headlines we will see in the next few weeks? **Reid Exceeds Speed Limit! Caught going 56 in a 55 MPH Zone!** **Reid tears “do not tear” tag from his pillow!** ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/45 "2006-10-12T20:18:24Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] It find it very reassuring that this is the worst (new) dirt the GOP has been able to dig up on Dems. I know they’ve been working tirelessly, night and day, to find something… _anything_ to deflect the public attention away from themselves. [/quote] Here’s the latest effort: [Let’s investigate Sandy Berger again!](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/12/washington/12brfs-004.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) > [@](#): > > Ten House Republicans called for a Congressional investigation into the improper handling of classified documents by President Bill Clinton’s national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger. Mr. Berger admitted last year that he deliberately took classified documents out of the National Archives in 2003 and destroyed some of them. After his guilty plea, he was fined $50,000. The Republican lawmakers asked the House Government Reform Committee to determine whether any documents were missing from Clinton administration terrorism records, to review security measures for classified documents and to seek testimony from Mr. Berger. The group is led by Representatives Duncan Hunter, chairman of the Armed Services Committee, and F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., head of the Judiciary Committee. And if that doesn’t work, I hear that next week the Republicans will try to re-open [Jimmy Carter’s “rabbit” incident.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a4_019.html)😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/46 "2006-10-12T20:41:54Z")
[QUOTE=kurilla] While Nevada allows recalls of state officials, I believe that no recalls are permitted in the Federal system. [/QUOTE] Well, I can’t find anything to definitively contradict that, so I’ll remove it from my list, for now. I did find a Wiki article on Sen. Philip Hart, in which it’s stated that Michigan conservatives attempted to mount a recall campaign against him during the '60s. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/47 "2006-10-12T20:51:19Z")
I’m not seeing a scandal here, or at least not much of one. Reid bought some real estate, then plowed it into an LLC which he co-owned with a firend. Then they worked to increase the value of the property by getting it rezoned (a local matter, over which reid would presumably have no control), and then they sold it for a nice profit. OK, he reported it as personal profits rather than LLC profits, but it’s not as if he hid the profits, or his connection to his friend 9which would have been a matter of public record in the LLC documents filed in Nevada). Is it scandalous to make money on a real estate investment? Is there something here I’m not seeing? This looks like a pretty straightforward investment in a high-growth area. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/48 "2006-10-12T20:52:17Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] I wonder what other headlines we will see in the next few weeks? **Reid Exceeds Speed Limit! Caught going 56 in a 55 MPH Zone!** **Reid tears “do not tear” tag from his pillow!** [/QUOTE] They’ll surely go after Pelosi too: **Pelosi’s lipstick doesn’t match her clothing!** and of course: **Pelosi’s from San Francisco, where all them libruls and homos and America-haters are from!** ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/49 "2006-10-12T23:26:10Z")
[QUOTE=Blalron] It find it very reassuring that this is the worst (new) dirt the GOP has been able to dig up on Dems. I know they’ve been working tirelessly, night and day, to find something… _anything_ to deflect the public attention away from themselves. [/QUOTE] First, keep in mind both sides are looking to do the same thing to each other. If you think this Reid thing is the money shot, a month before the election, you’re cracked. In 2 weeks this is going to look like a lawn darts game before they changed the targets from a circle to each other. This is just a run up to what is coming. I get a sense this is going to get really, really ugly. Fast. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/50 "2006-10-12T23:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Is it scandalous to make money on a real estate investment? Is there something here I’m not seeing? This looks like a pretty straightforward investment in a high-growth area. [/QUOTE] Given how values of land in Las Vegas have escalated over the last 4-8 years, Reid certainly didn’t get some unusual multiple on his investment. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/51 "2006-10-12T23:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] This is just a run up to what is coming. I get a sense this is going to get really, really ugly. Fast. [/QUOTE] I hope so. If the Dems can keep it together, and stay focused on the things that are out there now, then the Repubs are toast. **Focus** , dammit! Eyes on the prize and all that. Be completely open if they nail you with something, don’t waffle about it, and keep after the Republican leadership that is the center of the disease. And get a grip. Is the best you can do to support Phil Angelides (who is a total loser and shouldn’t be elected dog-catcher, much less governor) is run spots that try to link Arnold to Bush? Pitiful. Plus, you gave Arnold the perfect comeback, which he launched today: “I am no more linked to Bush than I am to an Oscar.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![the\_PC\_apeman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac8455/32.png) [@the\_PC\_apeman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_PC_apeman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/52 "2006-10-13T00:16:59Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] What state does Senator Bueller represent? [/QUOTE] I can’t believe this straight line has gone unanswered for so long. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/53 "2006-10-13T00:19:50Z")
My only real concern is that Reid, when he did the 2001 transfer, ended up with 75% share of the company. That indicates to me, given the minimal amount of information that I have, was that he had a 50% share in the LLC he transfered the property to, before the transfer. And he, apparently, did not report that ownership interest. If anyone has facts to alleviate my concern, I would greatly appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/54 "2006-10-13T00:58:20Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] My only real concern is that Reid, when he did the 2001 transfer, ended up with 75% share of the company. That indicates to me, given the minimal amount of information that I have, was that he had a 50% share in the LLC he transfered the property to, before the transfer. And he, apparently, did not report that ownership interest. If anyone has facts to alleviate my concern, I would greatly appreciate it. [/QUOTE] The TPMmuckraker story says that his share of the ownership didn’t change when it was tranfered to the LLC. It doesn’t detail how this is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/55 "2006-10-13T02:56:25Z")
So now it is unethical to make money on a real estate investment? Why do Republicans hate capitalism? ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/56 "2006-10-13T03:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > **Hentor the Barbarian** : …but I suggest we can reject her suggestion out of hand. I mean, think of all the horrendous shit that Republicans have been pulling, yet there’s a suggestion that we shoud start with Senator Reid? Reject my suggestion? Which one? 1. **MAYBE** we should start with Senator Reid. 2. Investigate quickly and fully. 3. If the allegations are true, throw the bum out. 4. Let’s get rid of the stupid ones. 5. Get rid of thugs and thieves in our government. 6. Everyone should be treated fairly. **Not really a Democrat**? Why, I’m the lunatic fringe, fella! ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/57 "2006-10-13T06:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] So now it is unethical to make money on a real estate investment? [/quote] IOKIARDI. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/58 "2006-10-13T06:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] So now it is unethical to make money on a real estate investment? Why do Republicans hate capitalism? [/QUOTE] Ken Starr tried to find something unethical in the Clintons \*losing \* money on a real estate deal. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/59 "2006-10-13T09:44:08Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] According to [this AP news report](http://enews.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20061011/452c6c40_3ca6_1552620061011558543006), Democratic leader Harry Reid may be in serious violation of Senate Ethics Committee rules by not reporting a "_verrrry interesting_ transaction in which he made \*\*1.5 million \*\* dollars on the sale of land which he hasn’t owned in three years. [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) [QUOTE=the article linked to in the OP] Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid collected a \*\*$1.1 million windfall \*\* on a Las Vegas land sale even though he hadn’t personally owned the property for three years, property deeds show. [/QUOTE] Where did you get the extra .4 million? The title of the article is **Reid Got $1M in Land Sale**. 1.1 million does not ‘round up’ to 1.5. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/60 "2006-10-13T10:23:40Z")
This morning’s WaPo headline: [Report Says 5 Nonprofits Sold Clout to Abramoff](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101200889.html) What Hiatt editorializes over: [Mr. Reid’s Nondisclosure](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/12/AR2006101201486.html) > [@](#): > > THE BEST CASE for Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) is that he was sloppy about financial disclosure rules in accounting for a real estate deal on which he made a $700,000 profit. The more unattractive case is that the senator’s inaccurate description of the investment was an effort to disguise his partnership with a Las Vegas lawyer who’s never been charged with wrongdoing but whose name has surfaced in federal investigations involving organized crime, casinos and political bribery since the 1980s. > > \ > > Mr. Reid’s professions of transparency and full disclosure are transparently wrong. His investment was not reported in a manner that made clear his partnership with Mr. Brown. It’s true – under the inadequate financial disclosure rules – that even if Mr. Reid had listed the newly formed corporation, Patrick Lane LLC, that wouldn’t have by itself demonstrated Mr. Brown’s involvement. Nonetheless, that Mr. Reid no longer owned the land, but instead had sold it for an interest in the Patrick Lane corporation, was not some mere “technical change,” as the senator would like to brush it off. It’s an essential element of financial disclosure rules, the purpose of which is to know how and with whom public officials are financially entwined. The WaPo makes no claim that Reid hid any interest in any property, or that he hid any financial gain. According to them, what was covered up by the deal was his relationship with Brown. Got that? Hiatt then goes on to say: 1. Reid’s friendship with Brown “isn’t exactly a secret in the state.” 2. Reid and Brown were partners in the LLC. 3. They’d co-owned one of the land parcels before it was transferred to the LLC. 4. The Senate’s disclosure requirements wouldn’t have required the reporting of Brown’s name in either case - whether Reid reported ownership of the property directly or through the LLC. But somehow Reid’s showing his ownership interest in the property as being direct rather than through an LLC is hiding something. Hiatt can’t seem to explain _what_ to save his life, but it’s still a violation of “an essential element of financial disclosure rules.” Whatever, dude. I’m strongly tempted to call up the WaPo this morning, and ask if someone can walk me through this editorial and explain just how Reid concealed something important, or even made his business relationship with Brown that much harder to find. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=4)