# Maybe We Should Start With Senator Reid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130 "2006-10-12T00:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/61 "2006-10-13T11:07:50Z")
This may be the weakest “scandal” I have ever seen. If that’s the best the Republicans can dredge up, we’re in good shape. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/62 "2006-10-13T11:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Reject my suggestion? Which one? 1. **MAYBE** we should start with Senator Reid. 2. Investigate quickly and fully. 3. If the allegations are true, throw the bum out. 4. Let’s get rid of the stupid ones. 5. Get rid of thugs and thieves in our government. 6. Everyone should be treated fairly. **Not really a Democrat**? Why, I’m the lunatic fringe, fella! [/QUOTE] Then start acting like it! We can’t afford to be so thick that we start tying the noose at one report in the mainstream media. A similar post in 2004 might have been “ **MAYBE** Senator Kerry did make up the stories about his war record. We should investigate quickly and fully.” Sure, let’s spend our time investigating Harry Reid and John Kerry or whoever else the Republicans want us to waste our time on and sully the name of. I’m sure we can rely on them to investigate all the Republicans, and to only stir things up when there is some real wrongdoing going on. And your OP was not simply, “Gee, is there any truth to this?” You did exactly what the Republicans want you to do, as a tool or a pawn. That is, run around repeating false allegations, such as your assertion that he hasn’t owned the land in three years. Hell, you even did them one better and added to the total profit he made. Oh, and by the way, did you hear about what a big liar Al Gore is? Yes, we should throw out the dirty ones, just like the congressman from Louisiana with all that dough in the freezer. But dammit, start fucking thinking about how the Republicans game plan is to fling shit and muddy the water and have people do exactly what you did before you go all Neil Cavuto on us. Be responsible - who knows how many more people actually think Harry Reid did something wrong just because of you personally. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/63 "2006-10-13T13:51:03Z")
My understanding is that part of the issue here is the way in which the profit was made - Reid’s LLC bought land zoned for private use, then lobbied to have the zoning changed to commercial. The article I read said that Reid’s name and the power he has as a Senator was used by his partner to help ‘convince’ the officials involved to change the zoning of the land. The zoning was changed to commercial, making the land instantly much more valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/64 "2006-10-13T14:43:01Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] My understanding is that part of the issue here is the way in which the profit was made - Reid’s LLC bought land zoned for private use, then lobbied to have the zoning changed to commercial. The article I read said that Reid’s name and the power he has as a Senator was used by his partner to help ‘convince’ the officials involved to change the zoning of the land. The zoning was changed to commercial, making the land instantly much more valuable. [/QUOTE] Curious. Where exactly did you read this article, because none of the other reporting suggests that Reid did anything to influence zoning or the value of the land. Without good sourcing from you, I’m going to suggest that you are doing exactly what I’ve been talking about: spreading bullshit to muddy the waters. As an example, I recall that you in particular were quite knowledgeable about the waterways along the Cambodian border as well just a few years ago. So, where was this article, and how did Solomon miss this critical part of the story? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/65 "2006-10-13T15:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] My understanding is that part of the issue here is the way in which the profit was made - Reid’s LLC bought land zoned for private use, then lobbied to have the zoning changed to commercial. [/quote] In jurisdictions where a lot of development is happening, this happens all the time, all across the county. People apply to change the zoning (or get an exception) on their property in a way that would make it more valuable, and the local governmental bodies tend to grant the changes or exceptions unless there’s a good reason why not. Feel free to come to my county and see the process in action, without any Congresscritters involved. > [@](#): > > The article I read said that Reid’s name and the power he has as a Senator was used by his partner to help ‘convince’ the officials involved to change the zoning of the land. Which would trash the Washington Post’s claim that Reid was trying to hide his connection with Brown from the folks back home. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/66 "2006-10-14T01:51:20Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] In jurisdictions where a lot of development is happening, this happens all the time, all across the county. People apply to change the zoning (or get an exception) on their property in a way that would make it more valuable, and the local governmental bodies tend to grant the changes or exceptions unless there’s a good reason why not. Feel free to come to my county and see the process in action, without any Congresscritters involved. Which would trash the Washington Post’s claim that Reid was trying to hide his connection with Brown from the folks back home. [/QUOTE] My understanding of what happened is this: Reid buys some land zoned for residential, for 400,000. Reid sells land to an LLC in exchange for shares. LLC lobbies to have the zoning changed to commercial. Request is denied. LLC appeals, and during the appeal Reid’s name comes up in a public hearing as one of the involved parties. Earlier denial is overturned, and the re-zoning is approved. LLC sells land for 1.6 million, Reid makes a bundle of cash. In fact, here’s a passage from the [AP Report](http://www.forbes.com/technology/ebusiness/feeds/ap/2006/10/11/ap3083826.html): > [@](#): > > Clark County intended for the property Reid owned to be used solely for new housing, records show. Just days before Reid sold the parcels to Brown’s company, Brown sought permission in May 2001 to rezone the properties so a shopping center could be built. > > Career zoning officials objected, saying the request was “inconsistent” with Clark County’s master development plan. The town board in Spring Valley, where Reid’s property was located, also voted 4-1 to reject the rezoning. > > Brown persisted. The Clark County zoning board followed by the Clark County Commission voted to overrule the recommendation and approve commercial zoning. Such votes were common at the time. > > Before the approval in September 2001, Brown’s consultant told commissioners that Reid was involved. “Mr. Brown’s partner is Harry Reid, so I think we have people in this community who you can trust to go forward and put a quality project before you,” the consultant testified. > > With the rezoning granted, Patrick Lane pursued the shopping center deal. On Jan. 20, 2004, the company sold the property to developers for $1.6 million. Today, a multimillion dollar retail complex sits on the land. > > On Jan. 21, 2004, Reid received more than $1.1 million of the sale proceeds. Reid disclosed the money the following year on his Senate ethics report as a personal sale of land, not mentioning Patrick Lane. See the pattern? A re-zoning request is denied multiple times. But then in the next request it’s announced that Harry Reid is involved, and voila! BTW, this is a fun [PDF](http://www.floppingaces.net/wp-content/reidconnections.pdf) to look at. Put together by the LA Times. It’s not specifically about this deal, but about Reid’s tangled web of family members who work for lobbying firms or represent clients that seek government help. Reid works within government to make the change, and client pays family member. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/67 "2006-10-14T02:01:10Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] Sure, let’s spend our time investigating Harry Reid and John Kerry or whoever else the Republicans want us to waste our time on and sully the name of. I’m sure we can rely on them to investigate all the Republicans, and to only stir things up when there is some real wrongdoing going on. [/QUOTE] The problem is, you’re still looking at investigations based on party. An investigation/allegation/accusation has the tinge of a Democrat being involved? Your immediate response is to point to Republicans? So it doesn’t really matter if “your” side did anything wrong. (In this case, I have no idea, just talking about the politics of it.) It’s the GOP’s fault, and even if Reid did anything wrong it was the evil-doings of the media, right? Note my previous post about disgust in everything the parties do to get elected and gain/hold power. I recognize it, you don’t. In honor of you, I’m going outside to collect a dog turd to set on my desk and I shall name it Hentor. Or Clyde. Or Estaban. Doesn’t really matter, as the odor will be more welcomed than your insightful posts here. Though my Pugs may be a bit upset over sullying their turds with the likes of you. I may not always be right in my opinions, but I’m righter than you. (I love internet grammer rules.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/68 "2006-10-14T02:06:02Z")
[http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67) The other side of the story. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/69 "2006-10-14T02:29:42Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67) The other side of the story. [/QUOTE] Wow. A link. Original. And from a credible source. I declare this thread dead, buried, and forever solved. {Checks he who posted link. } Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/70 "2006-10-14T03:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] …I’m going outside to collect a dog turd to set on my desk.. [/QUOTE] You know, most guys…a picture of the family, maybe one of those snow globes… ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/71 "2006-10-14T03:21:06Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] You know, most guys…a picture of the family, maybe one of those snow globes… [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, but that didn’t seem to be the best option. I have a few family members that would substitute for a turd, but none so gloriously as one I could post to. Though, the turd is more intellectually engaging so far than **Hentor**. And I’d dare say has a better, um, air, to it. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/72 "2006-10-14T03:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] My understanding of what happened is this: Reid buys some land zoned for residential, for 400,000. Reid sells land to an LLC in exchange for shares. [/quote] Well, so far you’re dead on. > [@Sam Stone](#): > > LLC lobbies to have the zoning changed to commercial. Request is denied. > LLC appeals, and during the appeal Reid’s name comes up in a public hearing as one of the involved parties. Earlier denial is overturned, and the re-zoning is approved. > LLC sells land for 1.6 million, Reid makes a bundle of cash. Now you start to get into 'he said/she said" territory. You suck up that AP story that Solomon wrote, but you give too much credence to the writer, who, IMHO, must be making a name for himself out of chasing Reid. If you want to do the work for yourself, you can go to the _Las Vegas Sun_ website and use their excellent search engine. It can search back quite a ways, and they don’t charge for your reading the articles. Amazing, in this day and time. Let me give you a starter…[http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2001/sep/06/512316780.html?“spring%20valley”%20zoning](http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2001/sep/06/512316780.html?%22spring%20valley%22%20zoning) You should go into your search knowing that the Clark County Commisioners are **The Zoning Board**. And rezoning things is what they did/do. Also, don’t just search for one thing. Use multiple terms. Multiple names. I spent hours today doing this. This ain’t just a cut-and-dried event. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/73 "2006-10-14T03:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] See the pattern? A re-zoning request is denied multiple times. But then in the next request it’s announced that Harry Reid is involved, and voila! [/QUOTE] Is there any evidence that Reid was aware of the alleged actions taken by Brown’s consultant? For that matter is there even any evidence that _Brown_ knew about his consultant’s alleged action? ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/74 "2006-10-14T04:00:51Z")
There’s no evidence that Reid did anything illegal anyway. This is all based on one wire story from the same reporter that wrote two inaccurate stories about Reid in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/75 "2006-10-15T02:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Wow. A link. Original. And from a credible source. I declare this thread dead, buried, and forever solved. {Checks he who posted link. } Never mind. [/QUOTE] With such insight you can dismiss it as completely erroneous and not challenge your preconceptions even a little.Stay right . No need to read ,you already know all that is possible. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/76 "2006-10-15T16:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] My understanding of what happened is this: Reid buys some land zoned for residential, for 400,000. Reid sells land to an LLC in exchange for shares. LLC lobbies to have the zoning changed to commercial. Request is denied. [/quote] Denied. Once, so far. > [@](#): > > See the pattern? A re-zoning request is denied multiple times. You’ve mentioned once. I’m not finding the other times. > [@](#): > > But then in the next request it’s announced that Harry Reid is involved, and voila! One mention of Reid’s name by a consultant - man, that’s pretty serious arm-twisting there! So, got anything substantive? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/77 "2006-10-15T18:01:54Z")
[http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001782.php](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001782.php) Truth requires equal parts of innuendo and oxycotin. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/78 "2006-10-15T18:05:38Z")
Sam, I get the impression you’re not clear on how zoning changes work in most US municipalities. Take a closer look at the article. > [@](#): > > Career zoning officials objected, saying the request was “inconsistent” with Clark County’s master development plan. The town board in Spring Valley, where Reid’s property was located, also voted 4-1 to reject the rezoning. > > Brown persisted. The Clark County zoning board followed by the Clark County Commission voted to overrule the recommendation and approve commercial zoning. Such votes were common at the time.\*\* The rezoning was never rejected by any official body from what I’m seeing. Zoning officials and a community group (the “town board”) voiced their objections to the rezoning (the latter in the form of a vote), but those only amount to _recommendations_ not binding on the zoning board. The zoning board disagreed and allowed the rezoning. And as the AP writer you cite says, that is a common thing. This is not an “appeal” process (as you describe it). The only body with authority to make binding decisions is the zoning board. All that came before were recommendations and community input. So to be clear, we’re not talking about a zoning body voting against rezoning and then later changing its tune. Nor are we talking about a zoning decision being overturned in any way. At least not from what I’m seeing. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/79 "2006-10-15T18:07:53Z")
I found [this](http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/files/point_by_point.doc) statement from Reid to be very helpful in dismantling the AP story. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/80 "2006-10-15T21:00:29Z")
So Reid’s not actually doing anything wrong. More specifically, he’s not diddling pages and covering it up like the Republicans. They’re doing lots of shit wrong! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=5)