# Maybe We Should Start With Senator Reid **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130 "2006-10-12T00:24:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2006, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/81 "2006-10-15T21:58:33Z")
Note the op .We should start with Reid. Give you any clues. The Repub scaldals are well along but we should stop and go after Reid. Just more reasonableness from our righties who jumped all over like it was real. Another feeding frenzy based on bias not truthiness. Nice snarkiness Duffer. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/82 "2006-10-16T00:38:55Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] I found [this](http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/files/point_by_point.doc) statement from Reid to be very helpful in dismantling the AP story. [/QUOTE] Indeed. Very helpful. As usual, Solomon has done a pretty shoddy job of reporting. And none of the voters I’ve talked to seem to think Harry Reid did anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/83 "2006-10-16T14:55:49Z")
Since there are a couple of Dems who, unlike Reid, have exhibited some pretty strong evidence of corruption, this seems as good a place as any to post [this](http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?/base/news-28/1160852050205180.xml&storylist=louisiana) without making a whole new thread of it: > [@](#): > > BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — U.S. Rep. William Jefferson, an eight-term incumbent mired in a federal bribery investigation, failed on Saturday to win endorsement from the state Democratic Party, which is supporting a challenger instead for Jefferson’s seat. > > The State Central Committee’s 69-53 vote was the first time in recent memory that an incumbent had failed to win the state party’s endorsement, said Elsie Burkhalter of Slidell, a member since the 1980s. > > The vote was largely symbolic; under Louisiana’s open primary system, Jefferson is among nine Democrats, three Republicans and a Libertarian on the ballot. Chris Whittington, state party chairman, described Saturday’s results as similar to a “vote of confidence” for Rep. Karen Carter of New Orleans, the challenger who won the endorsement. In Louisiana elections, if nobody gets 50% in the election, there’s a runoff between the top two vote-getters a few weeks later. Good to see Louisiana Dems doing what they can about this crook. With any luck, Jefferson won’t be a member of Congress in 2007. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/84 "2006-10-16T15:24:31Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Good to see Louisiana Dems doing what they can about this crook. With any luck, Jefferson won’t be a member of Congress in 2007. [/QUOTE] Absolutely. Get rid of this guy quickly and loudly and transparently. That does not mean “start” with him. That does not mean that we should be credulous of any assertions made by Republicans or conservatives, or by reporters (especially those who have a clear axe to grind). Part of the intention of numbnuts who make charges like these is for us to spend time considering the charges and defending them. They love, for example, that we have to go out to find witnesses to Kerry’s acts of heroism, develop expertise on the waterways of Cambodia and Viet Nam, or locate witnesses to a zoning board meeting in some part of Nevada. If we scramble every time there’s an allegation leveled, they’ve gotten just what they want. If we start considering the charges valid, and doing things like talking about Senator Reid being involved in “verrrry interesting” land deals, well that’s a second helping of cake to them: we’ve started doing their job for them by smearing Democrats ourselves. Don’t be gullible. Don’t be a useful idiot. Lean forward. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/85 "2006-10-16T17:38:40Z")
If the Dems take over ,I suspect the corruption will decrease. It wont go away because the system is set up so that money fuels our elections. If we dont have taxpayer financing ,this shit keeps on coming. You cant trust the people who benefit from the system to change it. We need to elect a majority of new leaders who go in with the idea of fixing the system. They have to act quickly ,because the lobbyists are well trained. The conservatives are jumping all over Reid. No story there ,it will go away. jefferson should be removed . He is a crook and an embarassment to all. The systems broke. Changing faces wont do it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/86 "2006-10-16T17:54:20Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] If the Dems take over ,I suspect the corruption will decrease. It wont go away because the system is set up so that money fuels our elections. If we dont have taxpayer financing ,this shit keeps on coming. You cant trust the people who benefit from the system to change it. We need to elect a majority of new leaders who go in with the idea of fixing the system. They have to act quickly ,because the lobbyists are well trained. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. When the Democrats were in charge, while lobbyists had influence, they didn’t write bills. You have to give Republicans credit for being highly innovative in corruption. I hope Democrats won’t feel they’ll have to follow suit. Maybe the Dems will tell the lobbyists who have been Republican toadies to fuck off. That would be excellent. Maybe they’ll tell them that the donation balance better shift rapidly and radically if they want to even get into the offices of the Dems. That would not be so good. But one way of another the lobbyists should feel the pain. That might discourage them from being so partisan the next time. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/87 "2006-10-16T18:49:41Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] But one way of another the lobbyists should feel the pain. [/QUOTE] I like this approach: [Agents raid homes of Rep. Curt Weldon’s daughter, close friend](http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15772927.htm) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/88 "2006-10-16T19:19:40Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] I don’t know. When the Democrats were in charge, while lobbyists had influence, they didn’t write bills. You have to give Republicans credit for being highly innovative in corruption. I hope Democrats won’t feel they’ll have to follow suit. Maybe the Dems will tell the lobbyists who have been Republican toadies to fuck off. That would be excellent. Maybe they’ll tell them that the donation balance better shift rapidly and radically if they want to even get into the offices of the Dems. That would not be so good. But one way of another the lobbyists should feel the pain. That might discourage them from being so partisan the next time. [/QUOTE] It is true that the k street project brought lobbyists into the process itself. I dont think the influental money interests are willing to go back where they were. It has to be bigger. Campaign refinancing wont be done by these people.Whem Repubs are passing checks out on the floor of congress it is beyond a simple fix. It has to be redone. These are smart people with a lot of money. They probably figure the pols should stay bought.It is not for the good of the country and the world.They have set up a 2 party system with both parties owing them. The corporations bought this countries polititians . We have to repossess them. We may be back in the streets protesting and shutting down the capital. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/89 "2006-10-16T21:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] It is true that the k street project brought lobbyists into the process itself. I dont think the influental money interests are willing to go back where they were. It has to be bigger. Campaign refinancing wont be done by these people.Whem Repubs are passing checks out on the floor of congress it is beyond a simple fix. It has to be redone. These are smart people with a lot of money. They probably figure the pols should stay bought.It is not for the good of the country and the world.They have set up a 2 party system with both parties owing them. The corporations bought this countries polititians . We have to repossess them. We may be back in the streets protesting and shutting down the capital. [/QUOTE] There’s no doubt that the people with the money will always try to control the political process as much as possible, at least to the extent that it affects their interests. (Abortion? Gay marriage? That’s for the little people to fight over.) But OTOH, the Dems have gotten this far, this cycle, with almost no help from the K Street crowd until the last month or two, when they realized they’d better get right with the new crowd. In 2004, the Dems raised a ton of money without the usual access to ‘soft money’ and without a lot of help from the corporate world. Even more so this year. One very possible, very close future is a Democratic Party that controls Congress, yet owes far less to the movers and shakers than any major party has in the past 60 years. We’re in for interesting times, and possibly some major collisions between a corporate world that’s more used to getting its way than ever before, and a more people-driven Democratic Party than we’ve known in eons. Fasten your seatbelts! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/90 "2006-10-17T00:11:28Z")
[There’s less difference than one might hope.](http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_40/b4003077.htm) Money follows power. Lack of either does not equal virtue. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/91 "2006-10-17T13:31:02Z")
The interesting thing about scandals like this one (and something the Usual Suspects would like to avoid by instantly dismissing any scandal involving Democrats) is the other shenanigans [that turn up.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs17.1oct17,1,5900773.story?coll=la-headlines-nation) Reminds me of the Sandy Berger thing - also strenuously denied by the knee-jerkers hereabouts. He pleaded guilty. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/92 "2006-10-17T14:15:50Z")
Wow – 3300 bucks’ worth of wrongdoing! Illustrates the old saying, don’t it: Democrats steal retail, Republicans steal wholesale. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/93 "2006-10-17T14:27:51Z")
My God! A Christmas bonus! The fiend! The fiend! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/94 "2006-10-17T14:30:47Z")
And look at this paragraph from the LA Times in **Sho-bot’s** link: > [@](#): > > Reid also announced he was amending his ethics reports to Congress to more fully account for a Las Vegas land deal that allowed him to collect $1.1 million in 2004 for property he hadn’t personally owned in three years. They continue to misrepresent the matter with the impression that he had no ownership of the land, yet he took profit from the sale. Fuckers. Your liberal media indeed. That’s attributed to the Times wire service. I wonder if that fuckface Solomon is behind that one too. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/95 "2006-10-17T14:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Reminds me of the Sandy Berger thing - also strenuously denied by the knee-jerkers hereabouts. He pleaded guilty. [/QUOTE] And now he’s _using_ those documents to [sic the FBI on Curt Weldon](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NU84tuMgz8&eurl=) (YouTube). If you republicans weren’t so weak on national security Sandy would’ve gotten the death penalty, and this wouldn’t be happening. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/96 "2006-10-17T14:59:16Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] The interesting thing about scandals like this one (and something the Usual Suspects would like to avoid by instantly dismissing any scandal involving Democrats) is the other shenanigans [that turn up.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs17.1oct17,1,5900773.story?coll=la-headlines-nation) [/QUOTE] Non-partisan as ever! _pat pat_ Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/97 "2006-10-17T15:01:43Z")
Keep your hands to yourself - I don’t know where they’ve been. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/98 "2006-10-17T16:55:12Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] The interesting thing about scandals like this one (and something the Usual Suspects would like to avoid by instantly dismissing any scandal involving Democrats) is the other shenanigans [that turn up.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs17.1oct17,1,5900773.story?coll=la-headlines-nation) [/QUOTE] I like that. “Shenanigans.” Paying a Christmas bonus. Damn him! ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/99 "2006-10-17T17:27:15Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] The interesting thing about scandals like this one (and something the Usual Suspects would like to avoid by instantly dismissing any scandal involving Democrats) is the other shenanigans [that turn up.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs17.1oct17,1,5900773.story?coll=la-headlines-nation) [/QUOTE] The thing is, at this point ANYTHING Republicans and their apologists, such as yourself, bring up about Democrats is going to look like nothing more than a feeble attempt at blame deflection. Your party’s been in power for years now, and they screwed it up by being the “Do as I say, not as I do” party. Democrats are just calling them on it, now- or, rather, taking political advantage of the Pub’s screwups.\* Quitcher whinin’, and suck it up. \*[SUB]That said, I don’t like Democrats, either. I just think they’re slightly LESS bad than the Republicans- but, if they manage to amass as much power as the Pubs have had these past years, they’ll probably screw it up, too.[/SUB] ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130/100 "2006-10-17T17:59:44Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] That said, I don’t like Democrats, either. I just think they’re slightly LESS bad than the Republicans- but, if they manage to amass as much power as the Pubs have had these past years, they’ll probably screw it up, too. [/QUOTE] I know this is a popular and balanced thing to say, and sure, nobody can predict the future, but is there any evidence of past behavior that would support this? I mean, the Democrats have had control of both houses and the presidency in the past (only briefly recently) or two of the three (for many years), and never committed nearly the level of scandalous behavior. What, they had Dan Rostenkoski’s book deal, and the House post office check scandal? Yikes! :eek: Perhaps you could argue that in the past 6 years there’s been some systemic change in the nature of Washington D.C., that when the Democrats take back the House and Senate and eventually the White House, they’ll fall prey to it. Like I said, one cannot predict the future, but one cannot really base a dire prediction like yours on past behavior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-we-should-start-with-senator-reid/376130.md?page=6)