# Maybe you shouldn't park in handicapped spaces? (mild) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 20, 2010, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413 "2010-09-20T15:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/141 "2010-09-26T04:10:41Z")
> [@kathmandu](#): > > > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > > If you want to be a Bad-Ass, park in the spaces reserved for families and expectant mothers. Until they’re willing to admit that having kids is a handicap, I think those spots are bogus. > > Yeah, we’re all fully aware that you don’t like kids and think that virtually any concession to them is bogus, since you rarely miss an opportunity to bring it up. The “ignore” function is pretty easy to use here. > [@](#): > > Like it or not, some businesses have decided that they’re going to designate those spots for pregnant women or people with small children. When I was eight months pregnant, fat, swollen and uncomfortable, I appreciated them. You’re kind of a douche if you park there, whether or not it’s illegal. If you don’t like them, complain to the management of the stores that have them, take your business elsewhere, or just park farther away. In my opinion, it seems douchey to equate a temporary, more-than-likely voluntary condition with a true handicap. It just seems like one more way that we are expected to treat everyone who has kids like they’re special, instead of realizing that they are the majority, just doing what everyone throughout history has done. ---
**Author:** ![kathmandu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kathmandu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kathmandu)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/142 "2010-09-26T04:29:15Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The “ignore” function is pretty easy to use here. Gee, thanks for pointing that out. > [@](#): > > In my opinion, it seems douchey to equate a temporary, more-than-likely voluntary condition with a true handicap. It just seems like one more way that we are expected to treat everyone who has kids like they’re special, instead of realizing that they are the majority, just doing what everyone throughout history has done. No one except you is equating it with a true handicap. There are all sorts of preferential parking spots for people who might be more inconvenienced than others by having to park farther away. Do you also get pissed about the designated parking spots at Ikea or Pottery Barn for customers to load or unload furniture? Or spots at malls or banks designated 10 minutes or less for ATM customers? Or delivery courier parking outside office buildings? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/143 "2010-09-26T06:20:32Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Someone parks in a handicapped spot and you want to key his car, pour sugar in his tank, etc? Wow. And you guys say I’m the douche. You’re the douche whose car we want to fuck up. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/144 "2010-09-26T06:42:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > Someone parks in a handicapped spot and you want to key his car, pour sugar in his tank, etc? Wow. And you guys say I’m the douche. > > You’re the douche whose car we want to fuck up. Duh. I’m aware. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/145 "2010-09-26T07:20:21Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > And you know this HOW? Provide a CITE. Give us something other than your enlightened wisdom-based assumptions about how one even gets a handicapped permit. (Do you even know?) In my state [Ct] > [@](#): > > A qualifying disability is one or more of the following impairments, disabilities, or conditions that affect mobility and are permanent in nature: > > 1. Use of portable oxygen. > 2. Legal blindness. > 3. Limited use, or no use, of one or both legs. > 4. Inability to walk 200 feet without stopping. > 5. A neuro-muscular dysfunction that severely limits mobility. > 6. A Class III or IV cardiac condition (American Heart Association standards). > 7. Severe limitation in the ability to walk due to an arthritic, neurological or orthopedic condition. > 8. Restriction because of lung disease to such an extent that forced (respiratory) expiratory volume for one second, when measured by spirometry, is less than one liter, or the arterial oxygen tension is less than sixty mm/hg of room air at rest. And these have to be certified by a doctor on a form. About the only one I can see that he might think of as frivolous is #4, as that is the category that extreme obesity can fall under. Although I would have to go out to my car and get the copy of the form my doc signed to see if the form has a space for the disability name [eg heart condition, arthritis, obesity or whatnot] as I can not remember offhand. There is a temp form and a permanent form, I have a set of license plates for the car I drive all the time, and a hanging placard for when I am in someone else’s vehicle, or a rental. I do hope that the jackasses who think that someone getting out of a car that isn’t in a wheelchair or on crutches can have one of the listed ‘invisible’ causes, like heart issue, COPD, or neuro issues … ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/146 "2010-09-26T08:39:04Z")
One of my best friends has a disability and is in a wheelchair, and has this funky doodad affixed to his car pedals to allow him to drive. What I’ve noticed about the disabled parking spaces is that they are wider, giving him room to place his chair, to slide into it, with his car door left open. We often park in other spaces when we’re out and about when those spaces aren’t present or available, and that can be additional struggle, so he tries to choose ones that have enough width for him to get out, such as those on the ends of rows. The proximity to the store is irrelevant to him, and I imagine to many others; it’s an added bonus. The convenience is in the fact they’re built for people who need extra help exiting and entering a vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/147 "2010-09-26T11:08:09Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Someone parks in a handicapped spot and you want to key his car, pour sugar in his tank, etc? Wow. And you guys say I’m the douche. Take it as an illustration of just how much hate you generate when parking in such spaces when you don’t have a legitimate reason. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/148 "2010-09-26T14:16:27Z")
Undeservedly using a handicap parking space is like begging for a life lesson of biblical proportions. People who rationalize their own unethical behaviour because it displaces no one, are douchebags, pretty clearly. You’re either an ethical person, or you’re not. Using cheeseball rationalizations for being an asshole or douchebag, doesn’t fool anyone but you. I’m a firm believer that people show you who they really are all the time. And, that everything you’re ever going to be you’re currently in the process of becoming. When you rationalize away your own ethics for convenience it’s pretty clear what kind of douchebag you’re becoming. But hey, you go right on believing that acting like a douchebag doesn’t make you one. Or that one douchie habit doesn’t make you a asshole. It’s these rationalizations, these individual acts of assholery, that reveal, to those around us, what we’re really made of. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/149 "2010-09-26T14:26:08Z")
I had a Boss once who was a Douche (not an identified handicap for parking purposes). His wife had died 3 years before and he was still using her tags. Every. Single. Day. He parking in Handicapped spots intentionally at every place he drove to, even for lunch. :dubious: I could have rationalized it as grief, but mental illness isn’t an identified handicap for parking purposes either. Ideally, if you are that crazy, you just shouldn’t drive. Sadly, in NJ, this just isn’t the case… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/150 "2010-09-26T21:34:11Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > > [@kathmandu](#): > > > > Yeah, we’re all fully aware that you don’t like kids and think that virtually any concession to them is bogus, since you rarely miss an opportunity to bring it up. > > The “ignore” function is pretty easy to use here. > > > [@](#): > > > > Like it or not, some businesses have decided that they’re going to designate those spots for pregnant women or people with small children. When I was eight months pregnant, fat, swollen and uncomfortable, I appreciated them. You’re kind of a douche if you park there, whether or not it’s illegal. If you don’t like them, complain to the management of the stores that have them, take your business elsewhere, or just park farther away. > > In my opinion, it seems douchey to equate a temporary, more-than-likely voluntary condition with a true handicap. It just seems like one more way that we are expected to treat everyone who has kids like they’re special, instead of realizing that they are the majority, just doing what everyone throughout history has done. This is such a bizarre attitude that I thought it was a joke at first. Do you realize that many handicaps are temporary? What’s the difference if it’s voluntary? The fact is, it’s difficult and dangerous to herd children and strollers through parking lots with cars backing out of spaces with no warning. It’s really not just a way to make mothers feel special. I had no idea how difficult and dangerous the parking lot thing was until I had very young kids with me. If you need a close space for whatever reason, sure, use it, but denying that others have the need because you think they’re being catered to is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/151 "2010-09-27T17:48:10Z")
Whenever this debate comes up, I always think of my parents (long divorced). My mom’s second husband has a handicapped hang tag (he had polio as a child), and she kept in in her car and only used it if he was with her. My dad had to have some serious surgery on his right leg in 2003, and DREW OVER the 3 with a Sharpie to make it look like an 8 so he could continue using it when it expired. THEN, he used to tuck it into the dashboard so you could see the emblem and the number, but not the expiration date. Yeah, my dad’s an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/152 "2010-09-27T18:23:36Z")
While I am 100% behind the “don’t park in a handicapped spot if you’re not handicapped” crowd in this thread, I’m appalled at the applause for keying cars, letting air out of tires, and so forth. I’ve confronted people over parking in handicapped spots before, but I’d never vandalize their car without having the facts. What if it’s a legitimately handicapped person who forgot the hanging tag that day? Wouldn’t you feel like dirt if you vandalized their car? Leave a nasty note. Talk to them when they come out. But don’t do something that’ll cost them a pile of cash–especially if you don’t know whether they’re legitimate or not. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > I like to think that I’m a logical and moral person… That word, moral, doesn’t mean what you think it means. Using handicapped spots you’re not entitled to and pirating music aren’t moral. You know it’s wrong, you know it’s illegal, and you’re doing it anyway, based on a weak rationalization. I really can’t say any more than that in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/153 "2010-09-27T18:31:15Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > And when they do park in handicapped spots there’s always like twenty more open handicapped spaces so, despite how you might want to paint it, they aren’t preventing anyone else from using a handicapped space. Yes, they are preventing someone from using a handicapped space. If you are parking in a spot, you are by fucking definition preventing someone else from using it. Now, it’s possible that there are other spaces available at the time you use that one. But there is no guarantee that those spaces will remain available. That is the fucking point of reserving them for the people who actually have a need for more space on the sides of their vehicles and/or a shorter distance to the entrance. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > It’s like me pirating music. No, it’s not. Downloading an album doesn’t destroy a physical copy, and an infinite number of digital copies can still be downloaded. Parking in a handicapped spot always means one fewer handicapped spot available from a finite number of spots. > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > You’re referring to the part where I’m not actually preventing a handicapped person from parking in a handicapped spot, right? Why then yes, I’ll continue to justify it. You can’t, except by lying or changing the actual literal meaning of “preventing.” > [@needscoffee](#): > > The fact is, it’s difficult and dangerous to herd children and strollers through parking lots with cars backing out of spaces with no warning. If you can’t control your children, don’t take them into public areas where they might do something stupid and get hurt. Or are you also going to insist on fences along every street because your precious angels might dart out into the road? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/154 "2010-09-27T18:33:00Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Don’t worry about it: I’m just lying about that, too. Well, you are lying about being handicapped when you put that tag on your car. I’m not quite understanding why you think it is unreasonable for us to doubt your assurances of there being plenty of open handicapped spaces for you, when you gladly admit to being dishonest and self-interested when it comes to parking a little closer to the Walmart. I think I can speak for a good portion of the other posters in this thread when it comes to the difference between smoking pot, parking in handicapped spaces, and other forms of civil disobedience. Not that this is my view, but I think most people would agree that if you choose to smoke pot, you probably aren’t impacting anyone else’s life in any significant way. As has been stated many times by others here who are impacted by disabilities, the loss of a parking space can be a considerable burden on some people. The question of whether or not you actually impose that burden on a person is, to a large degree, irrelevant. Assuming you have a two-car driveway, I could probably park my small car in your driveway every day of the week and you could probably still go about your life with just a minor annoyance. Does that make it acceptable for me to do that? No! The principle of taking up space that one has no legitimate claim to is the important consideration. Finally, on civil disobedience. I think most people would say that disobeying an unethical law is justified. However, I think it is justified to the extent that one is willing to pay the consequences to fight against the law. Mere “getting away with it” does not change the injustice of the law – and in this case, there is nothing unethical about reserving handicapped parking spaces. What’s more, I say your failure to acknowledge that you’re doing something wrong is helping to legitimize an unethical, illegal, and growing trend of trying to screw handicapped people out of a needed benefit. I believe you said 5 people are using your mother’s permit to illegally save themselves a few extra steps. Nice to know that there are a group of scofflaws who can justify to each other why their theft of parking spaces is justified since they haven’t gotten caught. And let’s be clear: this is a really difficult law to enforce. Meter maids can’t tell by just driving by a parked car whether it is illegally using a handicapped tag or not. A cop pretty much has to catch someone red-handed, and police have better things to do than stake out Walmart parking lots. The fact you haven’t gotten caught isn’t evidence that what you’re doing isn’t wrong. [Follow up story](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/26/AR2010092603823.html?hpid=editorialpromo)on handicap permit abuse by the WaPo. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/155 "2010-09-27T18:51:35Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > As far as I’m concerned I’ve not once prevented a handicapped person from parking in a handicapped spot so I’ll have no trouble sleeping tonight. People such as yourself rarely do. But since it has been noted that you’re still a kid, we can hope you’ll eventually grow into a wider sense of civic responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/156 "2010-09-27T19:14:43Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > My friend’s mom has a handicapped tag on her car. Whenever we take that car out we park in handicapped spots. 🙂 > > Unless your friend’s mom is with you, why the hell would you do that? > > (I know why, i want to hear it from the horse’s mouth.) Wrong end. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/157 "2010-09-27T20:26:16Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > > [@runner pat](#): > > > > Unless your friend’s mom is with you, why the hell would you do that? > > > > (I know why, i want to hear it from the horse’s mouth.) > > Wrong end. I think both ends are pretty much the same. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/158 "2010-09-27T22:00:57Z")
I don’t park in the disabled parking bays. I will park in parent bays at the supermarket if I have the baby with me- they are wider, allowing you to get the bambino into the car seat easily- difficult to do if you can’t fully open the door. Often they have space beside the car for you to put the buggy (stroller) or shopping trolley (cart), while you get the kid into or out of it. That means that it isn’t left at the end of the car, in the path of traffic, causing a delay to other drivers and a safety hazard for the child. My kid is strapped in, so I’m not worried about her darting into traffic, and I couldn’t care less if the parent parking is close to the doors or not-it is the wider bay I care about, not the proximity to the doors. Currently I’m having issues with the security gates to the underground parking where we live. The automatic closure system means that the gate is so heavy I cannot hold it open with one hand- an issue when the other hand is carrying my daughter. I had a near miss the other day when my arm nearly got caught (and crushed) in the gate. The management company feels the gate needs to be that heavy for security reasons. I’m not entitled to get a reserved space on top because I’m not disabled. I am trying to get them to loosen the gate hinges, not to let me park on top- a space for me means one less space for a disabled person, but they don’t seem to understand that I’d rather park further away, just not struggle to get out! ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/159 "2010-09-27T22:16:44Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@needscoffee](#): > > > > The fact is, it’s difficult and dangerous to herd children and strollers through parking lots with cars backing out of spaces with no warning. > > If you can’t control your children, don’t take them into public areas where they might do something stupid and get hurt. Or are you also going to insist on fences along every street because your precious angels might dart out into the road? All this because I mentioned a reason why stores might offer closer spaces for pregnant women, people with kids, and others who might make use of them? You seem to have a lot of anger bottled up inside. You should let it out once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413/160 "2010-09-28T15:02:10Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > All this because I mentioned a reason why stores might offer closer spaces for pregnant women, people with kids, and others who might make use of them? All this because you implied that special, reserved parking was necessary for pregnant women and people with small children. Despite the fact that a typical pregnancy is incapacitating to nowhere near the degree that is necessary to qualify for \*actual _handicapped tags and that people have been getting children through parking lots fine for thousands of years._ \*$5 says someone doesn’t get that this is hyperbole and earnestly attempts to persuade me that parking lots are a relatively recent development. > [@](#): > > You seem to have a lot of anger bottled up inside. You should let it out once in a while. Clearly, you don’t visit the Pit very often. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maybe-you-shouldnt-park-in-handicapped-spaces-mild/554413.md?page=9)