# McCain advisor to Americans: stop whining just because you lost your house and shit **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025 "2008-07-10T19:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/21 "2008-07-10T21:25:42Z")
We may be a nation of whiners, but at least we’re not bitter. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/22 "2008-07-10T21:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Wow. I don’t know if we’re actually a nation of whiners, but this particular complaint sounds perilously close to whining. “Waahh! My guy is so obviously great and not enough people agree with me!!” [/QUOTE] I suppose it’s a topic for another thread but I do think there’s a valid question to why Gallup is consistantly several points closer than than the other daily tracker (Rasmussen) and the majority of the multi-day polls. I don’t think the answer is “making shit up” but there does seem to be a difference in methodology which sets Gallup consistantly closer in margin. Just to prove me wrong, Gallup & Rasmussen are tied today but that hasn’t been the case for a good while and Gallup is nearly always the low one. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/23 "2008-07-10T21:33:54Z")
And Pew shows an 8 point difference. Anyway, this one might not be easy for McCain to shake off with a joke about sending Gramm to Chernobyl since McCain has said himself that some of of his proposals would have mostly a [psychological impact](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/24/1163504.aspx). ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/24 "2008-07-10T21:38:55Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] We may be a nation of whiners, but at least we’re not bitter. Right? [/QUOTE] What do you say, Liberal? Are blue-collar workers bitter? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/25 "2008-07-10T21:40:03Z")
Clingy, not bitter. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/26 "2008-07-10T21:43:21Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] If you truly mean to offer this question as a topic for debate, then let’s have at it. How can McCain, who according to you is heading a Keystone Cop organization, be polling so close to the near-deific Obama? [/QUOTE] Nonsense. The Dope has it as a landslide in the making for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/27 "2008-07-10T21:49:23Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] And Pew shows an 8 point difference. Anyway, this one might not be easy for McCain to shake off with a joke about sending Gramm to Chernobyl since McCain has said himself that some of of his proposals would have mostly a [psychological impact](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/24/1163504.aspx). [/QUOTE] I think any economist will tell you that psychology is an important part of the economy and the market. The housing bubble was caused in large part by people being overly optimistic about how high and for how long real estate could appreciate. That’s (bad) psychology. I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing with Gramm or pointing out a political mistake he may have made. Can you clarify that? [QUOTE=Shodan] Clingy, not bitter. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] First comes the bitterness, then the clinging. Next thing you know they’re whining. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/28 "2008-07-10T22:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] Nonsense. The Dope has it as a landslide in the making for Obama. [/QUOTE] Yeah! Just like we did for Kerry! Honestly, one thing that makes me hopeful for Obama winning is not so much some of the posters here that are supporting him when they didn’t Kerry, but the posters who are decidedly ambivalent about McCain. _shrug_ We’ll see. Still way too early. ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/29 "2008-07-10T22:09:36Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Over 90% of people who have mortgages have no trouble paying them… [/QUOTE] Some other good news, only .001% of Americans have been killed by terrorists in the last ten years. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/30 "2008-07-10T22:48:13Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think any economist will tell you that psychology is an important part of the economy and the market. The housing bubble was caused in large part by people being overly optimistic about how high and for how long real estate could appreciate. That’s (bad) psychology. I’m not sure if you’re disagreeing with Gramm or pointing out a political mistake he may have made. Can you clarify that? [/QUOTE] Far be it from me to become embroilled in the spell casting rituals of macroeconomists. I suppose there could be a theory somewhere that will posit a booming economy which we all are pissing away with our lousy morale. At any rate, McCain disagreed with him, saying that the man in Michigan who lost his job is not in a mental recession and that the woman who needs money to educate her child is not whining. I’ll just leave the student and the teacher to fight that out. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/31 "2008-07-10T22:55:51Z")
Gramm didn’t say the economy was booming. He said we weren’t in a recession, and he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/32 "2008-07-10T22:59:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Gramm didn’t say the economy was booming. He said we weren’t in a recession, and he’s right. [/QUOTE] Is it right that we’ve become sort of a nation of whiners? Is this right? > [@](#): > > “We’ve never been more dominant; we’ve never had more natural advantages than we have today,” he said. “We have benefited greatly” from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/33 "2008-07-10T23:04:52Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Is it right that we’ve become sort of a nation of whiners? [/quote] No, it’s not right. We’ve been a nation of whiners for quite some time. > [@](#): > > Is this right? Hard to say. I’d need him to flesh out his argument a bit more. But the last part is, I believe, correct. We have benefited from globalization, even though lots of people think the opposite. I believe that is the mainstream economic consensus. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/34 "2008-07-10T23:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] I’m not really sure how Gramm can be faulted here. There is no evidence that the economy is close to being as bad as many people think. Economic growth has been slower than in the past, sure, but so far we aren’t in a recession. [/QUOTE] There are multiple meanings of “recession” - granted, two quarters of negative GDP growth is the most popular one - and even more ways to determine whether or not the economy is “bad.” You can tell from McCain’s response that he knows this is going to hurt. The economy is the number one issue right now, and Gramm has just begged the Democrats to paint him as out of touch and not ready to help voters. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/35 "2008-07-10T23:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I believe that is the mainstream economic consensus. [/QUOTE] The same mainstream economic consensus that says “perception” is the problem, and not skyrocketing costs? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/36 "2008-07-10T23:51:45Z")
Vote for me! I promise a therapist at every gas pump! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/37 "2008-07-10T23:53:13Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] The same mainstream economic consensus that says “perception” is the problem, and not skyrocketing costs? [/QUOTE] “What are you whining about a bad economy for? The CEOs are doing GREAT!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/38 "2008-07-11T00:06:17Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] The same mainstream economic consensus that says “perception” is the problem, and not skyrocketing costs? [/QUOTE] I have no idea where you got that from. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/39 "2008-07-11T00:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I have no idea where you got that from. [/QUOTE] You want me to take the quote marks off “perception”, and put them around “psychology” instead? Or possibly “overly optomistic”? Give it a fucking break; if reality does not align with your figures, which is wrong? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025/40 "2008-07-11T00:56:28Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] You want me to take the quote marks off “perception”, and put them around “psychology” instead? Or possibly “overly optomistic”? Give it a fucking break; if reality does not align with your figures, which is wrong? [/QUOTE] I’m even more confused now. I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-advisor-to-americans-stop-whining-just-because-you-lost-your-house-and-shit/456025.md?page=3)