# McCain and Chaffee To Become Democrats? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630 "2002-11-19T22:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/1 "2002-11-19T22:44:29Z")
From the _Salt Lake Tribune_ "All may not be over. A Democratic dream scenario is actually possible, and it goes like this: Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. Lincoln Chaffee, R-R.I., are among the few remaining moderate or liberal senators – depending upon your point of view. They regard themselves as moderates, and they often vote with Democrats in opposition to President Bush and their fellow GOP colleagues. … [snip] “… McCain campaigned for Republicans during the election, but he has never forgiven the president for questioning his patriotism during the 2000 South Carolina primary. And he was not pleased when similar tactics were used against his friend, Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga. Cleland is a highly decorated, wheelchair-bound Vietnam veteran. So McCain is poised to jump parties. Chaffee is even more direct, saying before the election that America should “stay tuned,” referring to his often-threatened plan to switch parties. Except for jawboning, his Senate Republican colleagues have made little effort to dissuade him…” Debate topic. Hmmmmmmm. Howzabout “Resolved: this would be the best news since Agnew was busted.” OR “This would be the coolest thing since the Shelby Mustang” OR “Could the be taken as proof of the existence of a just and loving God?” ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/2 "2002-11-19T22:51:01Z")
McCain is the senator from my state, and during this last election he campaigned for the Republican candidate for governor (who lost by the way). But the commercial he made was the most unconvincing thing I’ve ever seen. He was practically holding his nose and crossing his fingers when he said “Vote for Matt Salmon” I usually vote Democratic, but I’ll vote for McCain for senate, president, or king, if he runs as Democrat, Republican, or Independant. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/3 "2002-11-19T22:59:35Z")
> [@](#): > > “Could the be taken as proof of the existence of a just and loving God?” Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy - Benjamin Franklin. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/4 "2002-11-19T23:17:25Z")
I would be quite surprised if McCain switched sides, but I’m sure the Democrats would welcome him. Chaffee I could buy a bit more, but there is still quite a history with his father being a Republican for so long. I would think that Lott would have to do a lot to piss of McCain and Chaffee to get them to defect. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/5 "2002-11-19T23:25:49Z")
Back in July, I offered a bet (stakes: one bottle of single malt scotch) that President Bush would be reelected in 2004. Despite loud cries of disdain at the prospect, only one person actually had the courage of conviction to take the bet. I am willing to offer a similar bet that McCain will not jump ship. Any takers? - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/6 "2002-11-19T23:39:45Z")
Define ‘Jump ship’… What if he changes to independent? ---
**Author:** ![BF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5ac83/32.png) [@BF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BF)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/7 "2002-11-19T23:42:54Z")
Like Jeffords? [insert vomit smiley here} ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2002, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/8 "2002-11-19T23:44:59Z")
Yeah, ok, like Jeffords. [insert “Haven’t laughed so hard since they shot Ol’ Yeller” smiley here] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/9 "2002-11-20T00:12:51Z")
If McCain formally severed ties with the Republicans, I’d lose, regardless of whether he became a Democrat or an independent. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/10 "2002-11-20T00:28:13Z")
Good Lord…if those two jumped… Wow. Three Senators jumping ship in such a short span of time? That would be truly stunning. I don’t think it’s going to happen. The Democrats used up their good karma with Jeffords. Can’t happen again. Can it? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/11 "2002-11-20T00:29:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*Back in July, I offered a bet (stakes: one bottle of single malt scotch) that President Bush would be reelected in 2004. Despite loud cries of disdain at the prospect, only one person actually had the courage of conviction to take the bet. > > I am willing to offer a similar bet that McCain will not jump ship. > > Any takers? > > - Rick \*\* I remember that bet, Bricker. And I still think I’ll collect. You heard it hear folks. Witness it for me. GWB will file for unemployment in late January 2005. ---
**Author:** ![SpartanDC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@SpartanDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpartanDC)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/12 "2002-11-20T00:37:17Z")
Lincoln Chafee could easily switch, but would only do so if either, A. The President or the leadership did something insulting to either him or his father’s legacy, or B. if switching would shift the party balance in the Senate. So, for the time being, Chafee is not switching. McCain will never, ever, ever, ever switch. Why? His voting record is very conservative. Pro-defense, pro-life, anti-gun control. In fact, McCain is more Republican than most of his Republican colleagues, because of his strong anti-pork, anti-regulation and anti-soft money stances. He is a true, principled conservative. You may disagree with him, but the man is very hard to not respect, and that’s why people of all political colors would love to make him president: You can respect the man up and down for many, many reasons. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/13 "2002-11-20T00:40:21Z")
Well, the Dems may have used up thier good karma. But the Pubbies gutting the Wellstone amendment (forbidding federal contracts to companies that move offshore to avoid federal taxes) has built up a major mother lode of bad karma. I don’t get that one. I’ve been outraged before, will again, but…words fail me. The final insult to a good man. I blame the Republicans, of course. And that gutless band of Dems who are pleased to think themselves “centrist”. Tell me about the patriotism again. Tell me again about how much you love America. Just one more time. I’ve never had bulimia, but this just might do it. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/14 "2002-11-20T01:04:11Z")
Ooh, I see this as a win-win situation. If McCain jumps ship, that means that there’ll be someone to act as opposition to the extreme-right Republicans… which I like, because then I can actually vote without thinking “A vote for a Republican is a vote for spineless Bible-thumping god-fearing maniacs”. On the other hand, if the Republicans really don’t want to lose McCain, that means that they’ll have to start pulling themselves back closer to center… which means less craziness. I doubt McCain’ll go Dem… Independent is much more likely. Perhaps he’ll start his own party. I’d join in a hearbeat. And wouldn’t it be oh-so-cool if Colin Powell goes with him? > [@](#): > > I blame the Republicans, of course. I blame the _religious_ Republicans. God is the worst thing that happened to politics since the invention of rhetoric. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/15 "2002-11-20T01:19:39Z")
A Colin Powell/John McCain party? Now _that_ would be proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/16 "2002-11-20T01:44:59Z")
What is the make up of the senate now? I can’t find the exact numbers… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/17 "2002-11-20T01:53:51Z")
Unprincipled assholes, approx. 99%, up from 98% with death of Wellstone. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/18 "2002-11-20T01:57:59Z")
I thought it was 50-50 with Cheney being the tie breaker. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/19 "2002-11-20T02:00:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Unprincipled assholes, approx. 99%, up from 98% with death of Wellstone. Now, now, Lucy, let’s be fair. They just have assholic principles. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2002, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630/20 "2002-11-20T02:00:35Z")
This is all delusional. Try this, from the [Washington Times](http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20020519-98623680.htm) > [@](#): > > But for all the disagreements that conservatives have had with Mr. McCain in recent years, one simple fact remains: Mr. McCain, who holds Barry Goldwater’s seat in the Senate, would have to utterly forswear two decades of conservative politics in order to defect to the Democratic Party. Such a defection - John McCain is no Jim Jeffords - would constitute a self-obsessed, opportunistic, megalomaniacal act of unimaginable proportions. > > To understand why, merely consider how Mr. McCain might appeal to the Democrats’ traditional allies. The pro-choice crowd will not appreciate Mr. McCain’s career-long opposition to abortion. The trial lawyers will not like his votes to limit product-liability damage awards and to reform product-liability litigation. Mr. McCain has been one of the Senate’s staunchest free traders, which included his votes to ratify NAFTA and to grant Permanent Normal Trading Relations to China. Labor will be further upset by the fact that Mr. McCain is just as likely to receive a zero rating from the AFL-CIO for his votes as he is to receive a 100 rating from the Chamber of Commerce. While Mr. McCain recently voted against oil exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, it will hardly make up for the zero ratings the League of Conservation Voters gave him in 1998 and 2000. Remember when Michael Dukakis successfully campaigned for the 1988 Democratic nomination in part by claiming to be “a card-carrying member of the ACLU”? Well, Mr. McCain earned a goose egg from the American Civil Liberties Union for his 1999-2000 voting record. On the national security front, Mr. McCain strongly supports a national missile defense system; and he voted against ratifying the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty. Oh, he opposes affirmative action. And, in 2000, he voted against broadening coverage of federal hate crimes. Mr. McCain also voted to convict Bill Clinton of perjuring himself before a federal grand jury and obstructing justice, while not a single Democratic senator voted to convict on either of the two articles of impeachment. > > To get yet another perspective of Mr. McCain’s politics, consider the annual voting ratings that the liberal Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) and the American Conservative Union (ACU) gave to the Arizona Republican from 1991 through 2000. The ADA average annual rating was a paltry 8.5 percent. Meanwhile, the average annual rating from the ACU was a robust 85 percent. And, for all the rebellious votes Mr. McCain cast last year, it remains true, according to Congressional Quarterly, that he still supported the position of President Bush on 91 percent of his votes, a level of support that was significantly higher than the support the president received from any Democrat. > Mr. McCain has, of course, repeatedly stated that he has no intention of abandoning the Republican Party. Asked recently by The Washington Post about his boomlet in the Democratic Party, Mr. McCain replied, “I’m pro-life. A total free trader. I’m for deregulation. I’m for missile defense. I’m for school vouchers and privatization of Social Security. If the Democratic Party wants me with those conditions, I’d be surprised.” McCain has always been known as a right-wing Republican. The fact that Democrats - and liberal Democrats, mind you - are infatuated with this man says something. The WT thinks it is a sign of Democratic desperation. Personally, I incline to think it is the “enemy of an enemy” thing. McCain has taken on the Republican leadership, therefore he is a “Good Guy”. And if he is a Good Guy, he must be something of a liberal. Dream on… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-chaffee-to-become-democrats/137630.md?page=2)