# McCain and Napolitano - Idiots **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268 "2009-04-24T21:42:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/1 "2009-04-24T21:42:26Z")
I thought we’d heard the last of this particular brand of Bullshit, but here it is again. Two days ago, Janet Napolitano suggested that some of the 911 hijackers came to the US via Canada. She was corrected by Ambassador Wilson, who pointed out that > [@](#): > > “As the 9-11 Commission reported in July 2004, all of the 9-11 terrorists arrived in the U.S. from outside North America. They flew to major U.S. airports. They entered the U.S. with documents issued to them by the U.S. government. No 9-11 terrorists came from Canada.” Pretty straightforward, right? Apparently no, since today, Captain senile, John McCain came up with this on Fox News today: > [@](#): > > “Well, some of the 9-11 hijackers did come through Canada, as you know,” No Janet, No John. You are wrong. Totally wrong. As in not right. Napolitano on Tuesday corrected herself, but added: “There are other instances, however, when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S.” For the record, to date, not a single known terrorist incident in the U.S. has been traceable back to Canada. Vigilant security officials at the border managed to successfully stop the single known would-be perpetrator – Montreal’s Ahmed Rassam in 1999. These are top officials in the United States. They are not some random uninformed idiots right? They are ignorant of BASIC, BASIC facts about an important event which has shaped US foreign policy. This is a complete farce. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/2 "2009-04-24T22:54:21Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > For the record, to date, not a single known terrorist incident in the U.S. has been traceable back to Canada. Isn’t Celene Dion Canadian? ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/3 "2009-04-24T23:31:10Z")
…Let us not forget Bryan Adams. /SP:BLU ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/4 "2009-04-25T00:01:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Napolitano on Tuesday corrected herself, but added: “There are other instances, however, when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S.” > > For the record, to date, not a single known terrorist incident in the U.S. has been traceable back to Canada. Vigilant security officials at the border managed to successfully stop the single known would-be perpetrator – Montreal’s Ahmed Rassam in 1999. For the record, these two statements are in no way contradictory. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/5 "2009-04-25T00:21:28Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > For the record, these two statements are in no way contradictory. The point, I think, is that her original statement (and McCain’s) were factually wrong. Which is why she had to issue that subsequent statement. Anyway, they’re both idiots. They’re attempt to portray both borders as equally problematic—or _un_problematic—is dumb, irresponsible, and dangerous. Of course, they do so to excuse themselves from taking a stance against illegal immigration. Fuck the both of them. Or let them fuck each other in some sandy pit on the border as the illegals go marching by. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/6 "2009-04-25T01:04:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > For the record, these two statements are in no way contradictory. How about "There is ONE OTHER INSTANCE (singular) when A SINGLE suspected terrorist (singluar) HAS attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S. 10 BLOODY YEARS AGO! ya, otherwise the statements are identical. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/7 "2009-04-25T03:04:01Z")
While I’m at it, a blast to the past pitting for Hillary Clinton, who promoted the whole “911 Terrorists from Canada” bullshit meme way back when, and also to Condi Rice for being blissfully unaware that Canada is the largest trading partner of the USA. Bonus recent pitting to Captain Carrot for not being able to tell plural from singular. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/8 "2009-04-25T03:09:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Bonus recent pitting to Captain Carrot for not being able to tell plural from singular. You don’t think it’s possible that the Director of Homeland Security knows of instances when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter the U.S. from Canada about which you are unaware? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/9 "2009-04-25T03:15:01Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You don’t think it’s possible that the Director of Homeland Security knows of instances when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter the U.S. from Canada about which you are unaware? While that is entirely possible, it is a fact that none of \*\*the 9/11 terrorists \*\*emigrated to the United States from Canada, which is what Clinton claimed. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/10 "2009-04-25T03:20:51Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > While that is entirely possible, it is a fact that none of \*\*the 9/11 terrorists \*\*emigrated to the United States from Canada, which is what Clinton claimed. Ok. How is that relevant to my question? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/11 "2009-04-25T03:34:41Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You don’t think it’s possible that the Director of Homeland Security knows of instances when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter the U.S. from Canada about which you are unaware? No, I think that it is far more probable, based on idiotic politicians of the past and present, that she is completely ignorant of the facts. I see no need to make up phantom terrorists that only she can see. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/12 "2009-04-25T04:28:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No, I think that it is far more probable, based on idiotic politicians of the past and present, that she is completely ignorant of the facts. I see no need to make up phantom terrorists that only she can see. The fact that you think Napolitano knowing something you don’t about suspected terrorists is equivalent to “phantom terrorists that only she can see” tells me everything I need to know about your assessments of what is probable. You had a good point in this thread. It’s a pity you had to muck it up by defending such a silly tertiary position. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/13 "2009-04-25T04:51:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > For the record, to date, not a single known terrorist incident in the U.S. has been traceable back to Canada. Vigilant security officials at the border managed to successfully stop the single known would-be perpetrator – Montreal’s Ahmed Rassam in 1999. And, not to take anything away from the security official who noticed this guy, but she has said that she received no anti-terrorist training to help her detect possible terrorists. The guy was simply obviously nervous and drew attention to himself. The idea that we are safer now from terrorists than we were in 2001 is so much bullshit. The intelligence agencies are fucking mess. Making up crap about the Canadian border and how it’s super dangerous is not going to help the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/14 "2009-04-25T05:11:26Z")
In the meantime, the southern U.S. border is completely porous, and thousands of people day cross back and forth from Mexico, a state that has much worse border security than Canada and which is widely corrupt. Oh, if only the U.S. was policing its borders as well as Canada does. And the fact is, most terrorists that have made it to the U.S. did so by coming right through border security on various visas. The Canada/U.S. border should be more open, not less. It would help our economies Better yet, we should work together to draft a common North American border security standard for the various ports, then open the Canada/U.S border up completely. Stop the terrorists at the choke points, and stop trying to maintain the fiction that thousands of miles of border can be effectively policed against the infiltration of individuals or small groups. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/15 "2009-04-25T05:29:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The Canada/U.S. border should be more open, not less. It would help our economies Better yet, we should work together to draft a common North American border security standard for the various ports, then open the Canada/U.S border up completely. Stop the terrorists at the choke points, and stop trying to maintain the fiction that thousands of miles of border can be effectively policed against the infiltration of individuals or small groups. This would essentially mean a Schengen-like agreement between the U.S. and Canada. I don’t think Canada would particularly like that deal, however, since it would mean Canada having to conform to U.S. laws and procedures, not the other way around. Aside from some limited flights out of Miami, there are no other direct flights from the U.S. to Cuba, unlike in Canada. So either the U.S. would have to chuck its travel restrictions (which could be a near-future possibility) or Canada would have to adopt them as well. The U.S. Department of Homeland Security would then become the the U.S. Department of North American Security and any travel watch-list or threat alert level would have to be enforced in Canadian ports and airports as well. In the end, Canada’s sovereignty would be eroded that much more. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/16 "2009-04-25T05:36:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > How about "There is ONE OTHER INSTANCE (singular) when A SINGLE suspected terrorist (singular) HAS attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S. 10 BLOODY YEARS AGO! > ya, otherwise the statements are identical. My point was that there is a difference between a suspected terrorist and someone who has attempted to enter the US and carry out an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/17 "2009-04-25T06:44:17Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > The U.S. Department of Homeland Security would then become the the U.S. Department of North American Security and any travel watch-list or threat alert level would have to be enforced in Canadian ports and airports as well. In the end, Canada’s sovereignty would be eroded that much more. And Maher Arar wouldn’t even be able to fly domestically within Canada. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/18 "2009-04-25T13:22:14Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Ok. How is that relevant to my question? Don’t get **RickJay** started, unless you find watching his tantrums to be amusing. It gets pretty sad pretty fast IMHO, but suit yourself. [Some starter links](http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=terrorist+canada&fp=CGM4k02K5DI) for those who can handle such a discussion on an adult level. There’s o point in even asking what the size of the transborder trade volume has to do with anything, unless it’s a surrogate statement for “We’re your friends, ergo we _can’t_ be doing anything to hurt you, and don’t you fucking dare suggest we are!” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/19 "2009-04-25T15:58:40Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The fact that you think Napolitano knowing something you don’t about suspected terrorists is equivalent to “phantom terrorists that only she can see” tells me everything I need to know about your assessments of what is probable. > > You had a good point in this thread. It’s a pity you had to muck it up by defending such a silly tertiary position. Napolitano has already shown that she has no idea how the 911 terrorists entered the USA. Did she even read the official reports of the 911 commission? Given this level of ignorance, I am not keen on believing that she has some great hidden knowledge of other events. I think it is more probable that she was covering her initial mistake with a bunch of waffle. Or perhaps she is counting Mahar Arar, who was an innocent Canadian sent by the Americans. to Syria for a year of torture. I’m don’t even understand why anyone would blame Canada for someone bad entering the USA in the first place. It is the AMERICAN border officials who are responsible for screening those entering your country. Blame them. **ElvisL1ves** thanks for the straw man. I don’t give a rats ass about the volume of traffic, and countries are not “friends”. Just don’t blame us for things that never happened please. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/20 "2009-04-25T16:26:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Oh, if only the U.S. was policing its borders as well as Canada does. And the fact is, most terrorists that have made it to the U.S. did so by coming right through border security on various visas. What in your opinion does Canada do better? It seems it would have a natural advantage, unless there are hordes of Alaskan illegal immigrants pouring across the border. 🙂 Does it enforce visa restrictions better? I know when I looked at the Canadian work visa requirements they seemed far less Kafka-esque than the American system, but that is a policy comment, not an enforcement comment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268.md?page=2)