# McCain and Napolitano - Idiots **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268 "2009-04-24T21:42:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/21 "2009-04-25T17:01:38Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > What in your opinion does Canada do better? It seems it would have a natural advantage, unless there are hordes of Alaskan illegal immigrants pouring across the border. 🙂 > > Does it enforce visa restrictions better? I know when I looked at the Canadian work visa requirements they seemed far less Kafka-esque than the American system, but that is a policy comment, not an enforcement comment. I haven’t been to Canada in about two years, but it has always been easier and quicker for me to get into Canada as a US citizen than to get back into the US as a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/22 "2009-04-25T17:18:25Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > What in your opinion does Canada do better? It seems it would have a natural advantage, unless there are hordes of Alaskan illegal immigrants pouring across the border. 🙂 > > Does it enforce visa restrictions better? I know when I looked at the Canadian work visa requirements they seemed far less Kafka-esque than the American system, but that is a policy comment, not an enforcement comment. Ixnay on the Alaskanays. We’re planning our assault for July. I plan to be King of the NWT. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/23 "2009-04-25T18:54:03Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I haven’t been to Canada in about two years, but it has always been easier and quicker for me to get into Canada as a US citizen than to get back into the US as a US citizen. There’s a fair degree of luck involved in that sort of thing and you can’t necessarily extrapolate your experience to the situation as a whole. Sometimes you run into someone who just wants to be a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/24 "2009-04-26T02:13:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > **ElvisL1ves** thanks for the straw man. I don’t give a rats ass about the volume of traffic :shrug: Who brought it up? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Just don’t blame us for things that never happened please. Or only once. At least directly. Are there \*no \*adults in your country? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/25 "2009-04-26T04:35:30Z")
So ElvisL1ves, you think that ONE case of a person with terrorist motives who tried to enter your country from Canada 10 YEARS AGO, and was caught, now entitles your Homeland Security head to spread complete bullshit about her Northern Border? When she said “There are other instances, however, when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S.” you actually believe that she is stating a (secret) fact that she has gleaned from secret information? Quite a few adults here thanks. We don’t believe in fairy stories. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/26 "2009-04-26T05:07:48Z")
1. Napolitano was wrong about 9/11 hijackers coming through Canada. 2. ??? 3. It is entirely implausible that Napolitano knows something about terrorist suspects that you don’t. Can you walk me through how (1) leads to the inference of (3)? Because to me, your description of the DHS Secretary knowing something you don’t as “fairy tales” strikes me as, well silly. What’s even more absurd than that is that we don’t even have to make the rational presumption that the DHS might have access to more information than you or I. We know that there have been a few terror-related prosecutions of people crossing the Canadian border since 9/11. [Cite](http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405176_immigration20.html?source=mypi). Again, you are entirely correct about the 9/11-related misstatements mentioned in the OP. But this second Napolitano one is pretty hard for you to defend. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/27 "2009-04-26T11:23:53Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So ElvisL1ves, you think that ONE case You’ve repeatedly insisted that there have never been _any_, despite being reminded of that most publicly prominent one already. Another reminder was obviously necessary if you’ll ever learn to post non-bullshit. > [@](#): > > When she said “There are other instances, however, when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S.” you actually believe that she is stating a (secret) fact that she has gleaned from secret information? I already pointed you to a bunch of links that are on the fucking Google. Ever tried looking into the matter, or is the desire for denial simply automatic with you? [One interesting Canadian site, just for example:](http://www.canadafreepress.com/audio/al-qaeda-montreal.htm) > [@](#): > > Mentioned only in passing in a Canadian Press (CP) report on terror suspect Assem Hammoud, CP stated that Montreal is “a known hub of al Qaida activity dating back to the 1990s”. (Terror plot suspect attended university in Montréal: official, Jim Bronskill and Bill Graveland, CP 08/07/06). > > “Montreal is the leading centre for Islamist and Jihadists groups in North America, many inspired by or with ties to al Qaida,” says Beryl Wajsman. “In total, with dozens of cells, Montreal has the largest number of such groups in any city in North America, not on a per capita basis but in gross numbers.” > > “Radical Muslim operatives go to ground in Montreal. They rest and recruit in Montreal and get their recreation here,” says Wajsman, a Montreal resident. > > The President of the Institute for Public Affairs of Montreal, Wajsman, a regular [canadafreepress.com](http://canadafreepress.com) columnist and popular public speaker, has a background in security and intelligence. Etc. And that was just a random selection from the first page. Here’s a helpful hint: Al Qaeda was and is more than 9/11. The problem of terrorism is more than Al Qaeda. A number of countries have been and are involved. Canada is one of them. Trying to limit the focus of your discussion to the Atta cell only is irresponsible, and only emphasizes your \*refusal \*to consider a broader picture. That’s irresponsible. > [@](#): > > Quite a few adults here thanks. We don’t believe in fairy stories. You don’t even know what the alternatives to your preferred version of reality ARE. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/28 "2009-04-26T16:05:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You’ve repeatedly insisted that there have never been _any_, despite being reminded of that most publicly prominent one already. Another reminder was obviously necessary if you’ll ever learn to post non-bullshit. > > Incorrect. I have stated that “Vigilant security officials at the border managed to successfully stop the single known would-be perpetrator – Montreal’s Ahmed Rassam in 1999.” I’ll be charitable, and assume you missed this in the OP. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I already pointed you to a bunch of links that are on the fucking Google. Ever tried looking into the matter, or is the desire for denial simply automatic with you? > > [One interesting Canadian site, just for example:](http://www.canadafreepress.com/audio/al-qaeda-montreal.htm)Etc. And that was just a random selection from the first page. And your cite shows that radicals who have gone to ground in Montreal have , in the words of Janet Napolitano > [@](#): > > " attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S." ??? No I did not think so. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/29 "2009-04-27T08:55:50Z")
We’ve shipped a bunch of very dangerous people into the US over the past few years. They have weapons and explosives training and they bear allegiance to no flag. They’re admitted criminals who were on the run from US authorities. Of course, we don’t call them terrorists. We call them Iraq War deserters. Maybe that’s who Ms. Napolitano was talking about. As for Maher Arar, I had a Criminology class in university that was taught by an actual CSIS agent. Smoke would come out her ears every time his name came up. Our government has something deep, dark and shitty on Mr. Arar but for whatever reason they can’t use it against him. But there’s still people out there who are utterly convinced he’s a bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/30 "2009-04-27T15:43:15Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > As for Maher Arar, I had a Criminology class in university that was taught by an actual CSIS agent. Smoke would come out her ears every time his name came up. Our government has something deep, dark and shitty on Mr. Arar but for whatever reason they can’t use it against him. But there’s still people out there who are utterly convinced he’s a bad guy. Ahh, the old “we know deep secret stuff that we can’t tell anyone about, but just trust us” ploy. Ya, I’m sure the information that Mr. Arar is a bad guy is out there somewhere.. It’s in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. Ya, just trust us. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/31 "2009-04-27T18:02:44Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > As for Maher Arar, I had a Criminology class in university that was taught by an actual CSIS agent. Smoke would come out her ears every time his name came up. Our government has something deep, dark and shitty on Mr. Arar but for whatever reason they can’t use it against him. But there’s still people out there who are utterly convinced he’s a bad guy. :rolleyes: I think the smoke might have been coming out of your teacher’s ears for reasons completely unrelated to Mr. Arar being a bad or good guy – i.e., the fact that his case embarrassed our government. In fact, that is a likelier explanation than any other. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/32 "2009-04-27T18:10:53Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ahh, the old “we know deep secret stuff that we can’t tell anyone about, but just trust us” ploy. > > Ya, I’m sure the information that Mr. Arar is a bad guy is out there somewhere.. It’s in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. Ya, just trust us. Before the Iraq War we had a very famous thread, which of course I can’t find now, by a guy saying “Trust me, I’m in the Army, I have intel contacts/info I can’t tell you about. Iraq has huge amounts of WMDs. It’s pure fact. I can’t tell you how I know, but we know all about it and once we get in there you’ll be blown away by the mounds of WMDs.” All the war supporters lined up behind the guy, “ooooh, a real live Army intel guy! He knows!” After the war started the guy never posted again. Not a single word. If the government tells you “X is true but we can’t tell you why,” it’s safe to assume it’s a 50-50 shot they’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/33 "2009-04-27T19:03:52Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And your cite shows that radicals who have gone to ground in Montreal have , in the words of Janet Napolitano??? If if amuses you, and it obviously does, please feel welcome to parse all the single context-stripped sentences made by foreign functionaries that you like. But, understanding the broader subject of your country’s role in global terrorism, and in fighting terrorism, and working for improved effectiveness by your government would be more like what a responsible adult would do. Did that thought ever occur to you, or only the intense smugness, leading to reflexive denial, that seems to be such a widespread attitude up there? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/34 "2009-04-27T19:06:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If the government tells you “X is true but we can’t tell you why,” it’s safe to assume it’s a 50-50 shot they’re full of shit. If it’s some pseudonymous fool on a public message board \*claiming \*to have such information, assume a lot higher than 50-50. Not a great cite there, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/35 "2009-04-27T19:16:43Z")
I’m going to try to restate the OP, **ElvisL1ves** 1. Janet Napolitano states that some of the 911 Terrorists entered the USA from Canada. 2. This is factually incorrect. 3. Therefore Ms. Napolitano is an idiot. 4. John McCain then repeats the falsehood on National TV 5. John McCain joins Ms. Napolitano in idiothood. 6. Ms. Napolitano then corrects her mistake, but adds "“There are other instances, however, when suspected terrorists have attempted to enter our country from Canada to the U.S.” 7. There is evidence only for A SINGLE terrorist attempting to enter the USA from Canada, and this was 10 years ago. 8. Ms. Napolitano is either an ass-covering idiot, or she is referring to secret cases that are not in the public sphere, in which case she’s an idiot for referring to secret cases. You will note that I have not made any attempt to paint Canada as a Terrorist-free zone, or to defend Canada’s record in dealing with extremist threats within her own borders. The thread is about idiotic statements by American politicians who seem to have idiotic notions about border security to the North. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/36 "2009-04-27T19:58:16Z")
IOW, you still don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/37 "2009-04-27T20:09:59Z")
> [@tds1273](#): > > …Let us not forget Bryan Adams. > > /SP:BLU The Canadian Government has apologized for Bryan Adams on several occasions! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/38 "2009-04-27T20:10:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Before the Iraq War we had a very famous thread, which of course I can’t find now, by a guy saying “Trust me, I’m in the Army, I have intel contacts/info I can’t tell you about. Iraq has huge amounts of WMDs. It’s pure fact. I can’t tell you how I know, but we know all about it and once we get in there you’ll be blown away by the mounds of WMDs.” All the war supporters lined up behind the guy, “ooooh, a real live Army intel guy! He knows!” > > After the war started the guy never posted again. Not a single word. > > If the government tells you “X is true but we can’t tell you why,” it’s safe to assume it’s a 50-50 shot they’re full of shit. I think you’re referring to posts by **Bluesman** , who stated that he was a US Air Force intelligence guy working on WMD and Iraq. See, for example, his comments in this thread: [Bets on when the US war with Iraq will begin?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=151526) However, he did continue posting into late 2003, as in this thread, still defending his position that there were WMD: [What’s the betting on the election - can Bush win?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4357494#post4357494). > [@What's the betting on the election - can Bush win?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-betting-on-the-election-can-bush-win/218769/53): > > [QUOTE=RTFirefly] > > Bluesman, my friend, are you sure you really want to go there? We’ve been back and forth across this ground last spring on this board, including in a thread with your name on it. I know you know a lot of stuff the rest of us don’t, but I’m not sure a security clearance is any better of a trump card now than it was then. NOT having a security clearance is rather less than that. Remember, I didn’t JUST work in that building, I didn’t JUST hold that clearance. Iraq was my SPECIALTY. I KNOW. And you know not. [/QUOTE] However, I think that this thread was the last one he posted in relating to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/39 "2009-04-27T20:17:38Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If the government tells you “X is true but we can’t tell you why,” it’s safe to assume it’s a 50-50 shot they’re full of shit. In my experience, it’s more like a 99-1 shot. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268/40 "2009-04-27T22:11:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > However, I think that this thread was the last one he posted in relating to this topic. Fair enough. He only chickened out of the SDMB after it was definitely proven there were no WMDs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-and-napolitano-idiots/494268.md?page=3)