# McCain Campaign pulls out of Michigan: Have they entered the dealth throes yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218 "2008-10-02T19:15:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/21 "2008-10-02T23:05:33Z")
Perhaps he’s just _suspending_ his Michigan campaign until the economy is better. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/22 "2008-10-02T23:15:15Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Perhaps he’s just _suspending_ his Michigan campaign until the economy is better. “It’s not pining, it’s resting”, eh? ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/23 "2008-10-02T23:15:18Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Perhaps he’s just _suspending_ his Michigan campaign until the economy is better. Nice one! 🙂 If in fact McCain is pulling out of Michigan I don’t think it’s a huge indicator of his campaign dying. They’re surely just pooling their resources; with little time and a finite number of dollars left they have to focus on the States that they believe will put them over the top. I’m sure they’ve done the math. That being said, if the media spins this as “death throes”, then they will be in a lot of trouble. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/24 "2008-10-02T23:20:57Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > This is a rumor. He cancelled an appearance in a town hall meeting in Michigan and the press ran with it. He’s still got a ton of ads in Michigan. You’re not running, what, 30 or 40 hours of ads a week and “pulling out” of any market. Sorry, it’s [the real deal](http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html): > [@](#): > > John McCain is pulling out of Michigan, according to two Republicans, a stunning move a month away from Election Day that indicates the difficulty Republicans are having in finding blue states to put in play. > > McCain will go off TV in Michigan, stop dropping mail there and send most of his staff to more competitive states, including Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida. Wisconsin went for Kerry in 2004, Ohio and Florida for Bush. > > A McCain aide confirmed the move and chalked it up to the state’s Democratic tilt and the resources Obama had put in place there. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/25 "2008-10-02T23:21:45Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > He’s still running a ton of ads. Him? Or the RNC? My understanding ( could be wrong ) is that McCain pulling out doesn’t preclude the RNC from continuing to run seperately funded adds for him in Michigan. It just means McCain is shifting his own precisely limited funding to other venues. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/26 "2008-10-02T23:23:50Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Sorry, it’s [the real deal](http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/1008/McCain_pulling_out_of_Michigan.html): Time and RCP [say the same thing](http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/10/mccain_camp_confirms_michigan.html) > [@](#): > > “Operations will be scaled back” in Michigan, said McCain political director Mike DuHaime on a conference call with reporters. “It’s been the worst state of all the states that are in play. … It’s the obvious state, in my perspective, to come off the list.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/27 "2008-10-02T23:25:02Z")
MI was a long shot for him, so while this isn’t a good sign, it’s hardly “death throes”. Don’t get overly confident about Obama. He’s up now, but things can change. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/28 "2008-10-02T23:30:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > MI was a long shot for him, so while this isn’t a good sign, it’s hardly “death throes”. Don’t get overly confident about Obama. He’s up now, but things can change. Er. Michigan wasn’t a long shot. It was close for Gore, it was close for Kerry, and McCain beat out Bush the last time the two squared off against each other in a primary. Michigan is there the Republican party was founded (damn you, Jackson) and the term “Reagan Democrats” was coined in the suburbs Northeast of Detroit. Nah, McCain had a shot here, but people re-realized that the economy fucking blows and McCain hadn’t helped that situation in…oh…ever. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/29 "2008-10-02T23:50:09Z")
Actually this is a very clever ply by McCain. Michiganders will appreciate McCain pulling out of the state and giving them a break from the never-ending campaign. I expect to see McCain pull out of Florida, Ohio, and Colorado next. Very tricksy. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/30 "2008-10-03T00:45:06Z")
[TPM reports on a McCain campaign conference call:](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaign_the_map_is_sti.php) > [@](#): > > Asked to explain their route to an electoral college win, campaign adviser Greg Strimple cited the following six states – Ohio, Virgin\*a, Florida, Missouri, Indiana, and North Carolina – and described them as "all states where we’re tied or ahead. > > \ > > Asked on the call how it was that things got to the point that they were aggressively defending red states, McCain advisers offered a creative defense. They said, in essence, that they’d played rope-a-dope with Obama, spending nothing in them while letting Obama advertise aggressively in them in order to waste his money. > > “One of the strategic decisions our campaign has made is to let Mr. Obama spend his resources until we got closer to the election,” Strimple said. Those states, he added, “will snap back aggressively in our favor.” Uh-huh. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/31 "2008-10-03T02:48:08Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Michigan is there the Republican party was founded (damn you, Jackson) and the term “Reagan Democrats” was coined in the suburbs Northeast of Detroit. > > . Can you give me more info on the “_Reagan Democrats_was coined in the suburbs Northeast of Detroit?” I know the term was used in 1976. Just looking for more info. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/32 "2008-10-03T03:28:43Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Can you give me more info on the “_Reagan Democrats_was coined in the suburbs Northeast of Detroit?” I know the term was used in 1976. Just looking for more info. [Reagan Democrat - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Democrat) This comes close. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/33 "2008-10-03T03:46:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Yippee! Now I won’t have to see his ugly mug on television except on the news. That was my first reaction too! (we get the Detroit channels on our local cable) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/34 "2008-10-03T04:54:57Z")
Political chess-wise I think it was a smart move. McCain’s behind, so the campaign decided reorganization of resources was called for. He’s behind there, may need to spend time/resources on their Risk-like electoral map, and there is still the slim chance that Obama will not carry the state after all (perhaps non-McCain ads running and Obama’s trouble with the blue collar workers will smile on McCain). The timing was spot on. Palin’s debate was tonight. What if Palin screws up? Without derailing this thread into another Palin examination, I don’t think it is partisan to say that the campaign recognized the significantly non-zero chance of her pulling another Couric. If she did, and the polls reflected even a minute drop in response, dropping Michigan would seem like a strong validation of her performance. Whether this is the case or not is irrelevant, the perceived connection would be substantial. They also had to consider what would happen if Palin did very well (not just holding her own, but if she got in a couple “there you go agains” and “you’re no Jack Kennedy” lines). Dropping Michigan shortly after would be a very contradictory signal, and probably serve as a weight on any momentum she might have brought. Finally, the debate, and the amount of attention paid to it will vastly overshadow McCain’s restructuring. The debate, spin, and direction will dominate the conversation well past Michigan’s exit becoming old news. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/35 "2008-10-03T05:04:51Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > …Michigan is there the Republican party was founded (damn you, Jackson)… The good people of Ripon, Wisc. might disagree with you there: [Ripon, Wisconsin - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripon,_Wisconsin) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/36 "2008-10-03T12:58:09Z")
I’m confused. Wasn’t Michigan the state that the Dems had ruined their chances of ever getting another elector from because they had so grievously insulted Michigan delegates by ignoring them during the primaries? I thought that was a permanent gloating point for GOPers. Now, not so much? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/37 "2008-10-03T13:33:39Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I’m confused. Wasn’t Michigan the state that the Dems had ruined their chances of ever getting another elector from because they had so grievously insulted Michigan delegates by ignoring them during the primaries? I thought that was a permanent gloating point for GOPers. > > Now, not so much? That and Florida. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/38 "2008-10-03T13:37:59Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > That and Florida. Obama is showing an aggregate poll lead in Michigan of +7.0 now which is actually better than Gore or Kerry and he is actually pull to +3.0 in Florida where Bush won both. [RealClearPolitics](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html) gives some great breakdowns. I especially love the [Electoral Map](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)where Obama now has a very solid lead. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/39 "2008-10-03T14:04:29Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > …I especially love the [Electoral Map](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/)where Obama now has a very solid lead. That’s a great map, all right. Hope it proves accurate on Nov. 4, with the leaners going the way they’re now headed. Surprising to see N.C. up for grabs - I’d think that would be pretty solidly red. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218/40 "2008-10-03T14:24:15Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Finally, the debate, and the amount of attention paid to it will vastly overshadow McCain’s restructuring. The debate, spin, and direction will dominate the conversation well past Michigan’s exit becoming old news. I think you’re misreading the discussion here. It’s not about how McCain’s exit from Michigan will affect what the talking heads say, and how that’ll affect what people think. I personally think that’ll have zero impact. It’s about what McCain’s exit from Michigan, and his refocus on a half-dozen 2008 swing states that all went GOP in 2004 and, excepting Ohio, weren’t even competitive that year, says about _his actual chances_. Like I said in the ‘forked’ thread, McCain now has to either (a) win Pennsylvania (where he hasn’t led in a single credible poll all year, including those taken at the height of Palinmania), or (b) ‘run the table’ on a group of close states that include New Hampshire, Colorado, and Nevada as well as Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Missouri, Indiana, and North Carolina. Or (c) somehow change the overall ballgame, which is slipping away real fast. Speaking of slipping away, [McCain’s lost Charles Krauthammer](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/02/AR2008100203043.html). Who’d have believed that would be possible? Stick a fork in him: he’s done. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-pulls-out-of-michigan-have-they-entered-the-dealth-throes-yet/466218.md?page=3)