# McCain campaign "push-polling" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308 "2008-10-03T13:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/1 "2008-10-03T13:34:23Z")
Story in the [_Guardian:_](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/03/uselections2008.barackobama1) > [@](#): > > Barack Obama’s campaign for the White House is receiving increasing complaints about scam pollsters involved in dirty tricks operations to discredit the Democratic candidate. > > Victims claim the fake pollsters work insinuations into their questions, designed to damage Obama. Those targeted in swing states such as Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania include Jews, Christian evangelicals, Catholics and Latinos. > > One of those to protest, Debbie Minden, who lives in a predominantly Jewish neighbourhood, Squirrel Hill, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, told the Guardian that the pollster had begun by asking her the usual questions about her background and who she would vote for. > > But the pollster went on to ask Minden, who is Jewish, how she would vote if she knew that Obama was supported by Hamas, the Palestinian militant group that runs Gaza and was responsible for most of the suicide bombings against Israel. “It is scare tactics. It is terribly underhand,” she said. > > \ > > An Obama campaign organiser in one of the swing states said there had been lots of complaints about push polling in his patch. Callers said questions frequently included a reference to the widespread belief that Obama is a Muslim, even though he has repeatedly said he is a Christian. > > The organiser said another question was: would you be less likely to vote for Obama if Israel had to give up all of Jerusalem? “They make this shit up. They are good at it. The unassuming listener will not realise it is untrue,” he said. > > \ > > The Huffington Post website reported that a reader, named Rachel from Strongsville, Ohio, complained of a push poll that portrayed Obama as a radical leftwinger who had voted to let convicted child sex offenders out early and to allow them to live near schools. Rove torpedoed McCain with push-polling in the 2000 Republican primaries. McCain has learned his lesson well. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/2 "2008-10-03T13:38:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Rove torpedoed McCain with push-polling in the 2000 Republican primaries. McCain has learned his lesson well. “What happened to that principled, stand-up John McCain? The guy we saw in 2000?” “He lost.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/3 "2008-10-03T13:57:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “What happened to that principled, stand-up John McCain? The guy we saw in 2000?” > > “He lost.” Dammit, why can’t America be more like the _Laff-a-Lympics_, where cheating and weaseling backfire and the Really Rottens always lose in the end? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/4 "2008-10-03T14:27:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “What happened to that principled, stand-up John McCain? The guy we saw in 2000?” > > “He lost.” Yeah…doesn’t make it any more palatable. I thought it sucked when used against McCain and I think it sucks now. And certainly it adds another straw to the pile (as if we needed another) that McCain is full of shit on casting himself as a “principled” character. There really should be a way to sue people like this for slander. I’m the last one to jump to the courts and sue people for every little thing but overt bullshit like this should just not be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Carl\_Corey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Carl\_Corey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carl_Corey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/5 "2008-10-03T14:30:00Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Dammit, why can’t America be more like the _Laff-a-Lympics_, where cheating and weaseling backfire and the Really Rottens always lose in the end? Because then the situation would devolve into a civil conflict between the Yogi Yahooies and the Scooby-Doobies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/6 "2008-10-03T14:37:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > There really should be a way to sue people like this for slander. I’m the last one to jump to the courts and sue people for every little thing but overt bullshit like this should just not be allowed. Well, that’s the thing. It’s presented in such a way as to make it non-slanderous: “What would you say if I told you that Barack Obama is a Muslim?” is a hypothetical, even though there’s a clear inference that Obama’s a Muslim. If they’re saying “Barack Obama is a Muslim. How does that affect your choice of candidate?” then it’s slander. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/7 "2008-10-03T14:40:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, that’s the thing. It’s presented in such a way as to make it non-slanderous: “What would you say if I told you that Barack Obama is a Muslim?” is a hypothetical, even though there’s a clear inference that Obama’s a Muslim. > > If they’re saying “Barack Obama is a Muslim. How does that affect your choice of candidate?” then it’s slander. If that distinction really works in court (and it very well may AFAIK) then that sucks too. It is glaringly obvious that the above is splitting hairs with no effective distinction between the two. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/8 "2008-10-03T14:46:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, that’s the thing. It’s presented in such a way as to make it non-slanderous: “What would you say if I told you that Barack Obama is a Muslim?” is a hypothetical, even though there’s a clear inference that Obama’s a Muslim. > > If they’re saying “Barack Obama is a Muslim. How does that affect your choice of candidate?” then it’s slander. I recall from journalism school, there was a case holding that a gossip columnist could not escape liability for libel by phrasing her libels as questions and naming no names, e.g., “What blonde wife . . .?” No, the problem here is that it’s very hard to make a claim of defamation stick in a political-campaign context – First Amendment protections, by general judicial consensus, applying more strictly to political speech than any other kind. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/9 "2008-10-03T15:07:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If they’re saying “Barack Obama is a Muslim. How does that affect your choice of candidate?” then it’s slander. I would not want to see a trial in which “X is a member of Y religious group” is grounds for slander. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/10 "2008-10-03T15:14:49Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I would not want to see a trial in which “X is a member of Y religious group” is grounds for slander. That’s a good point. I suppose I should have used the McCain example from 2000: “Would it affect your decision if we told you that John McCain has an illegitimate black child?” (sort-of-alluding to his adopted Pakistani daughter). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/11 "2008-10-03T15:27:02Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I would not want to see a trial in which “X is a member of Y religious group” is grounds for slander. That does seem bad but that does not make it non-slanderous. Obviously the “Obama is a Muslim” schpiel is being used to slander him. It is cruddy that such a thing is viewed as relevant and a ding against a candidate but it is. “Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person’s reputation or standing in the community.” ([cite](http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/85BAB88B-0660-4AB6-A2F5C32E716A6D52)) Seems to fit that definition to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/12 "2008-10-03T15:39:05Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > McCain has learned his lesson well. He hasn’t had to. Rove works for his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/13 "2008-10-03T15:54:14Z")
If this is true, McCain is a fucking whore. If he thinks it is justified because it might help him win, then he is justifying Rove’s use of his daughter in 2000. What a total fucking scumbag. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/14 "2008-10-03T17:35:10Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > If this is true, McCain is a fucking whore. If he thinks it is justified because it might help him win, then he is justifying Rove’s use of his daughter in 2000. What a total fucking scumbag. [Here.](http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/eight-years-after-s.c.-karl-rove-works-with-sen.-mccains-camp-2008-09-08.html) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/15 "2008-10-03T17:44:28Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > He hasn’t had to. Rove works for his campaign. I wonder if he’s ever read _Faust_? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/16 "2008-10-03T19:05:39Z")
Where does it say that the McCain campaign is doing this? I didn’t go to your link, but your quote doesn’t say anything about who the pollsters are. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/17 "2008-10-03T19:16:05Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > He hasn’t had to. Rove works for his campaign. Does he? There’s nothing about that [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove#Activities_since_leaving_the_White_House) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/18 "2008-10-03T19:20:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Where does it say that the McCain campaign is doing this? I didn’t go to your link, but your quote doesn’t say anything about who the pollsters are. They do not know who it is (says that in the story). Certainly the actual campaign would keep its distance and plausible deniability. Seems a bit too pervasive and coordinated though to chalk up as a crank call or something. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/19 "2008-10-03T19:27:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does he? There’s nothing about that [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove#Activities_since_leaving_the_White_House) Not Rove, but one of Rove’s disciples, Steve Schmidt. One of many links about this [here.](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/mike-duhaime.html) A guy named Steve Schmidt worked for me once, but not the same guy. My guy had some morals. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/20 "2008-10-03T20:06:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does he? There’s nothing about that [here.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove#Activities_since_leaving_the_White_House) Yeah, Wiki is a completely reliable source. :rolleyes: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308.md?page=2)