# McCain campaign "push-polling" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 3, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308 "2008-10-03T13:34:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/41 "2008-10-04T05:05:43Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, but that’s irrelevant. How were these people harmed, to the level of being “victims” of anything? I realize that this is wasted effort on my part, but I’d hate for some well-meaning lurker to think that you actually have some sort of point here. > [@www.thefreedictionary.com/victim](#): > > 1. A person who is tricked, swindled, or taken advantage of: the victim of a cruel hoax. > [@dictionary.reference.com/browse/victim](#): > > 1. a person who is deceived or cheated, as by his or her own emotions or ignorance, by the dishonesty of others, or by some impersonal agency: a victim of misplaced confidence; the victim of a swindler; a victim of an optical illusion. > [@www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/victim](#): > > b: one that is tricked or duped \ ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/42 "2008-10-04T06:24:23Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > Well, yeah, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be held to _any_ standards. **John Mace** is asking why we should believe that the McCain campaign is behind this, and not just some rabid McCainines? I have not seen evidence that this specific tactic originated in the McCain campaign organization. OTOH, having watched the McCain interview with The Des Moines Register editorial staff, I am forced to conclude that McCain would heartily approve of it and if he is not behind it he is cheering them on. On several questions about how dirty the campaign has gotten, McCain baldly stated that the lies and innuendos his organization had posted about Obama, including the absolute lie that Obama was promoting sex education for kindergartners, were actually true and that he had the substantiating “documentation.” I would not have expected him to admit that they were simply manufactured, but instead of doing a bit of good political misdirection, he simply lied and declared that he had documentation proving that they were true. The man is scum. (I have never trusted him, but I would not previously expected him to be so blatantly a liar.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/43 "2008-10-04T13:48:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No one ever proved who did the anti-McCain push-polling back in 2000 either, but everybody knows, you know? > > Remember, the court of public opinion is not a court of law. Proof beyond reasonable doubt is not a necessary standard. IOW, you have no evidence that McCain was behind this other than your reflexive habit to assume the worst about your political adversaries. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/44 "2008-10-04T14:44:43Z")
It’s not like this sort of tactic is something new and unexpected in politics. By all accounts, the Obama campaign has had a team in place to combat negative campaigning for some time; sort of like Clinton’s “defense department” squad in 1992, who were very effective in rebutting the bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/45 "2008-10-04T14:50:56Z")
[McCain Campaign’s Ad Spending Now Nearly 100 Percent Devoted To Attack Ads](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaigns_ad_spending_n.php) > [@](#): > > As of October 1 – three days ago – the McCain campaign’s $1.3 million weekly is being broken down as follows, according to Tracey, who stressed that he himself wasn’t labeling the ads either “positive” or “negative”: > > - Nearly half a million weekly is funding the ad called “Dome,” which attacks “Obama and his liberal allies” in Congress for favoring “massive government.” > > - A shade more than half a million is funding the ad called “Mum,” which attacks “Obama and his liberal allies” as “mum on the market crisis.” > > - Much of the remaining McCain money is funding a spot called “Overseas,” which says that “Barack Obama and his liberal allies are to blame” for jobs going overseas. A negligible amount of the remainder is going to a positive spot, the “Original Mavericks” ad. [McCain Plans Fiercer Strategy Against Obama](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100303738.html) > [@](#): > > With just a month to go until Election Day, McCain’s team has decided that its emphasis on the senator’s biography as a war hero, experienced lawmaker and straight-talking maverick is insufficient to close a growing gap with Obama. The Arizonan’s campaign is also eager to move the conversation away from the economy, an issue that strongly favors Obama and has helped him to a lead in many recent polls. > > “We’re going to get a little tougher,” a senior Republican operative said, indicating that a fresh batch of television ads is coming. “We’ve got to question this guy’s associations. Very soon. There’s no question that we have to change the subject here,” said the operative, who was not authorized to discuss strategy and spoke on the condition of anonymity. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/46 "2008-10-04T16:37:40Z")
Anyone want to speculate what its going to be? Gay marriage? Don’t think so, that ones pretty well worn out, that dog won’t hunt, that dog is dead. They’ve put out a couple feelers with the whole “Victory in Iraq!” (that “white flag of surrender” nugget of horseshit she delivered with such spunky aplomb…), but that is definitely an uphill struggle. They’ve also gestured in the direction of re-branding themselves as the People’s Republic Party of America, sworn enemy of fat cats, but thats like Blackwater rebranding as day care providers. They could just wait and hope that something falls from the sky into their laps, Obama caught with a live boy _and_ a dead hooker…but the clock is ticking, the sand in the hourglass running out. So, any day now, they will come running at us with their hair on fire and shrieking at the top of their lungs about Obama, something horrible, something terrible…but what? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/47 "2008-10-04T16:37:52Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [McCain Campaign’s Ad Spending Now Nearly 100 Percent Devoted To Attack Ads](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaigns_ad_spending_n.php) > [McCain Plans Fiercer Strategy Against Obama](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/03/AR2008100303738.html) Yeah, desperation is setting in bigtime. This sort of crap is easily defended and deflected, however. Bush I tried this crap in '92 and Clinton’s war machine just kept hammering on the economy. Obama’s campaign will continue to steer the conversation to the economy, lost jobs, bank collapses, and the fact that “maverick” is just a polite term for “loose canon”. McCain contradicted himself at least six times on Thursday and Friday. He’s all over the place on policy and what he does or doesn’t support. As the tension gets greater, look for a meltdown in a debate forum if Obama pushes the right button. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/48 "2008-10-05T00:18:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I realize that this is wasted effort on my part, but I’d hate for some well-meaning lurker to think that you actually have some sort of point here. Oh Noes, they’re “victims” of slanted poll questions. What harm do they suffer? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/49 "2008-10-05T00:26:24Z")
The people telephoned aren’t harmed. What about those who are making the calls? Or do conscience, honor and character mean nothing to you? Oh, wait– ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/50 "2008-10-05T00:32:26Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Oh Noes, they’re “victims” of slanted poll questions. What harm do they suffer? :rolleyes: **Carol,** getting hung up over the use of the word “victim,” of all things, not only is very silly and picayune given all the more important ramifications of this story, but implies your approval of the tactic. I hope that was not your intention. If you wanted to cast doubt on the McCain campaign’s responsibility for this, as others in this thread have done, that would at least be relevant. (But, if this story is not a discredit to the campaign, then it is a discredit to the broader conservative movement. Which at this point [should be no surprise.)](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071112/hayes) ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/51 "2008-10-05T00:37:05Z")
I agree that it is a sleazy tactic, but frankly I wish the Dems would engage in some sleaze themselves. Too often do they stick their noses in the air and say, “We won’t lower ourselves to these kinds of politics” while watching the election slip away. How about: [ul] [li]Do you believe Sen McCain’s previous health problems and bouts with cancer will affect his ability to be president?[/li][li]If Sen McCain’s cancer were to return and he were to die within the next year, would you be comfortable with Gov Palin as president?[/li][li]If Gov Palin is convicted of a crime in Alaska, should she step down?[/li][/ul] I’m sure the Republicans wouldn’t mind if that sort of thing occurred, right? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/52 "2008-10-05T01:03:12Z")
[quote=“leander, post:51, topic:466308”] [li]Do you believe Sen McCain’s previous health problems and bouts with cancer will affect his ability to be president?[/li][li]If Sen McCain’s cancer were to return and he were to die within the next year, would you be comfortable with Gov Palin as president?[/li][li]If Gov Palin is convicted of a crime in Alaska, should she step down?[/li][/QUOTE] None of those questions contain an implied untruth, although I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with the second one. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/53 "2008-10-05T01:17:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > . . . Muslim" schpiel is . . . . Nitpick. It’s “spiel” though the pronunciation is somewhat as you spelled it. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/54 "2008-10-05T01:18:06Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > The people telephoned aren’t harmed. What about those who are making the calls? Or do conscience, honor and character mean nothing to you? I can’t believe y’all are getting so worked up about this. So a political campaign is making push-poll calls. So what? By your own admission, the “callees” are not harmed. Is your issue that some people are stupid enough to fall for that crap? If so, the fault is their own. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/55 "2008-10-05T01:24:09Z")
> [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](#): > > If this is true, McCain is a fucking whore. That fact was established quite some time ago. See also: confederate flag, South Carolina state capitol. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/56 "2008-10-05T01:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] I can’t believe y’all are getting so worked up about this. So a political campaign is making push-poll calls. So what? By your own admission, the “callees” are not harmed. Is your issue that some people are stupid enough to fall for that crap? If so, the fault is their own. [/QUOTE] You really are a despicable little cunt. Deliberate, vicious lies are just fine and “harm” no one. And if somebody is stupid enough to _believe_ them, hey, their fault anyway. Ends justify the means! No tactics too sleazy so long as it’s your ‘team’ using them. I’d think you’re a troll but no, you’re probably really that morally empty. But by all means keep puking your bile. You couldn’t expose yourself more thoroughly if you tried. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/57 "2008-10-05T01:38:02Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > Deliberate, vicious lies are just fine and “harm” no one. I think the pubbies actually put that in their party platform this year. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/58 "2008-10-05T01:48:40Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > You really are a despicable little cunt. Deliberate, vicious lies are just fine and “harm” no one. And if somebody is stupid enough to _believe_ them, hey, their fault anyway. Ends justify the means! No tactics too sleazy so long as it’s your ‘team’ using them. > > I’d think you’re a troll but no, you’re probably really that morally empty. > > But by all means keep puking your bile. You couldn’t expose yourself more thoroughly if you tried. See my post #49 for elucidation. She is what she is… but she’s OUR **CarolStream** , boy howdy, you betcha! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/59 "2008-10-05T02:01:28Z")
> [@TVeblen](#): > > You really are a despicable little cunt. Deliberate, vicious lies are just fine and “harm” no one. And if somebody is stupid enough to _believe_ them, hey, their fault anyway. Ends justify the means! No tactics too sleazy so long as it’s your ‘team’ using them. > > I’d think you’re a troll but no, you’re probably really that morally empty. > > But by all means keep puking your bile. You couldn’t expose yourself more thoroughly if you tried. Bile, you mean like calling someone a “despicable little cunt”? Watch out for that beam, there. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308/60 "2008-10-05T02:10:01Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Bile, you mean like calling someone a “despicable little cunt”? Watch out for that beam, there. [/QUOTE] Now, now. You’re edging into Bricker territory. Your sole point of credibility has been you’re a despicable little cunt but you usually don’t pretend to anything better. You usually glory in it, in fact. So enjoy your refreshing wallow! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-campaign-push-polling/466308.md?page=4)