# McCain doesn't have have a plan for the economy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 18, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206 "2008-09-18T20:48:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/21 "2008-09-19T18:57:05Z")
Why on earth do people expect either candidate to have some complicated plan for fixing this? No one really knows what to do, that’s why it’s a crisis. The only solution anyone has come up with is basically have the taxpayer foot the bill, which probably won’t go down too well, especially since the Fed is having trouble finding money these days… If the OP meant a general plan for the economy, not just the current crisis, well, McCain thinks the economy is fundamentally sound, so of course he has no plan to change it, why would he? 'course, then his numbers in the polls tanked and he suddenly became an economic populist, which is all rather hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/22 "2008-09-19T19:07:52Z")
Gee. If Sen. McCain thinks short-selling is a form of gambling, imagine how he’ll react when he discovers Futures Markets! I caught his little economic speech this morning, but my concentration was not what it should have been. He seemed to alternate between attempts at stealing Sen. Obama’s thunder and usual conservative boilerplate (i.e., “Taxes are gonna crawl out from under the bed and eat us all!”). (Side observation: how come Palin isn’t off by herself making speeches (which is about all veep candidates are good for) and instead keeps doing warm-up for McCain? Do they not trust her on her own??) ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/23 "2008-09-19T19:15:13Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > You mean like this? Oh, come on. Congressional efforts to improve oversight of Fannie and Freddie go back to the first Bush administration. If anything John McCain has been a latecomer to his supposed regulatory epiphany, and there are plenty of reasons to doubt his sincerity now: He voted against stricter control of Fannie and Freddie in 1992, and his current campaign manager Rick Davis formed and ran the [Homeownership Alliance](http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-28760524_ITM), a lobbyist group dedicated to reducing regulation on home lenders including Fannie and Freddie. You might also want to take a look at the contents of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which was written was in response to accounting scandals at Fannie and Freddie. It had little to do with the failure of the subprime market itself, and absolutely nothing to do with the systemic problem of unregulated securities traded against sub-prime mortgages, a lynchpin of the current financial crisis. And McCain was late to even this modest bit of reform: He was a late co-sponsor after OFHEO presented their report and Fannie Mae had paid their fines. IMO McCain saw this as yet another granstanding move to capitalize on public outrage over accounting fiascoes like Arthur-Anderson. Essentailly, McCain found a bill from recent years with the words “Freddie Mac” in it and is trying desperately to link it with the current scandal. I’ll agree there’s plenty of blame to go around for scuttling better oversight over the years, but if you want to lay it at the feet of Sen. Dodd, are you just as willing to hang Sen. Phil Gramm, McCain’s good friend and chief economic adviser (until it became politically expedient to dump him)? ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/24 "2008-09-19T19:19:01Z")
> [@BJMoose](#): > > (Side observation: how come Palin isn’t off by herself making speeches (which is about all veep candidates are good for) and instead keeps doing warm-up for McCain? Do they not trust her on her own??) McCain needs people to attend his events, and including Palin is the only way he can draw a significant crowd. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/25 "2008-09-19T19:31:45Z")
Figured I’d put this in here. From [CNN](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080919/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_financial_crisis): > [@](#): > > GREEN BAY, Wis. - Republican John McCain said Friday the Federal Reserve needs to stop bailing out failed financial institutions. The Republican presidential hopeful said the Fed should get back to “its core business of responsibly managing our money supply and inflation” and he laid out several recommendations for stabilizing markets in the financial crisis that has rocked Wall Street and commanded the dialogue in the presidential campaign. > [@](#): > > McCain made little mention of the massive proposal being crafted by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson that could amount to a $1 trillion taxpayer bailout of the mortgage industry. McCain said simply that leaders should put aside partisan differences and “any action should be designed to keep people in their homes and safeguard the life savings of all Americans.” He’s a complete idiot. It’s ironic to me that his position seems more in line with a lot of the screechers here on the board wrt the bailout…while Obama’s is closer to my own on this. I’d say though that by his statements in this CNN article that McCain is completely clueless about the current situation. > [@](#): > > “A strong dollar will reduce energy and food prices,” McCain said to applause from the Green Bay Chamber of Commerce. “It will stimulate sustainable economic growth and get this economy moving again.” How he figures we’ll have a strong dollar if our economic institutions go into free fall is beyond me (let alone why a strong dollar is all that important at this time in any case). How we’ll be able to stimulate economic growth if banks can’t or won’t loan money is beyond me as well…and how they WILL loan money if we let the bottom drop out is beyond me. Also, how he expects people to keep their houses yet not have the government do anything is…well, beyond me as well. Clueless. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/26 "2008-09-19T19:47:59Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > You might also want to take a look at the contents of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, which was written was in response to accounting scandals at Fannie and Freddie. It had little to do with the failure of the subprime market itself, and absolutely nothing to do with the systemic problem of unregulated securities traded against sub-prime mortgages, a lynchpin of the current financial crisis. ? Umm, it was accounting tricks that led the FM’s to be able hide the fact that they held the shitty portion of the CDOs on their books. (Or rather some subsidiary somewhere). THAT’s the crux of the current situation. Everybody looked good on paper, and suddenly, wham!, they have to come up with $50 billion to cover bad debt that wasn’t even showing on their books. Who is going to loan money to an institution when you have now clue what their real assets/debts are? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/27 "2008-09-19T20:01:48Z")
My guess is that neither candidate wants to come up with an explicit plan for dealing with the current crisis because any realistic plan would go like this: “We’ve just spent several hundred billion dollars bailing out reckless financial institutions and deadbeat mortgage holders. We need to raise taxes to pay for all this. Sorry about that.” I’m pretty sure that this would be a non-starter as a campaign speech. People don’t want the truth, they want to be told that taxes will go down. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/28 "2008-09-19T20:10:01Z")
He doesn’t need one. He’s not running to save anything or to be a hero, despite all the crap that comes out of his mouth. One of the reasons he’s such a canterous fellow to his fellow Senators is that they actually do challenge him or his opinions and simply don’t genuflect when they see him, particularly since he almost got himself killed for their behinds in Korea. His campaign reflects his attitude about life. The idea that he’s of a privileged class and heritage and the only person he needs to top is his daddy. A reason he has no patience for anyone or thing who dares challenge or stand in his way. His type does not need education, nor a plan. He just needs to be crowned and then appoint the folks that he feels will do his bidding. **All Hail John McCain**.:rolleyes: Puhleeeeeze… ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/29 "2008-09-19T20:53:02Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Umm, it was accounting tricks that led the FM’s to be able hide the fact that they held the shitty portion of the CDOs on their books. (Or rather some subsidiary somewhere). THAT’s the crux of the current situation. You clearly do not understand the crux of the current situation then. Fannie Mae (along with other financial institutions) has been reporting quarterly losses for at least the last year; it’s the reason why, for example, they [cut their dividend and sold $6 billion in stock in late 2007](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8060d4ea-9d43-11dc-af03-0000779fd2ac.html). Citigroup [made similar capital-raising moves](http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_c/Citigroup/20080430_citigroup.html) in 2007 and 2008; these losses were absolutely not the result of accounting practices. > [@](#): > > Everybody looked good on paper, and suddenly, wham!, they have to come up with $50 billion to cover bad debt that wasn’t even showing on their books. Who is going to loan money to an institution when you have now clue what their real assets/debts are? Phony accounting is what did in Enron and Worldcomm. But the FM’s and others groups holding mortgage-backed securities have been in trouble for quite a while, and they have all been reporting it in their financial statements. The big “boom” is related to the unexpected size of the problem and the lack of a regulatory framework for the fair valuation of motrgage-backed securities (which leads to high-leverage positions). Some hedge-funds (which have no regulatory captial requirements) were undercapitalizing these “assets” at close to 30:1; it’s no surprise then that when things started to go south, the collapse would be huge. The fact that John McCain is trying to use a late sign-on to a 2006 bill that attempted to improve accounting practices at the FMs as justification that he “predicted” this whole mess is laughable. His stump speeches are a scrambled list of populist platitudes about the “fundamentals of the economy”, the “casino culture” of Wall Street, or having the Fed work toward “a strong dollar”. On this issue at least, he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about, and Obama is exposing his incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/30 "2008-09-19T22:08:18Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > Phony accounting is what did in Enron and Worldcomm. It’s basically the same accounting tricks. Big banks, Merril Lynch were all parking their CDOs in off balance sheet entities. This minimizes the amount of disclosure necessary, so investors, other banks, etc didn’t see the huge liabilities attached lower tranches of those CDOs. > [@](#): > > these losses were absolutely not the result of accounting practices Accounting practices made the CDO investments seem much better than they actually were, leading to over leveraging of them. If Merrill Lynch hadn’t been able to hide the big risk, they never would have invested so heavily in them. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/31 "2008-09-20T00:18:05Z")
I think the very question is a bad one. The last thing we need is for candidates to come up with solutions in the five minutes they’ve got between campaign stops. Especially since a good solution might not be one that will get a lot of votes. Sometimes, people, it takes a lot of thought, debate, and study to come up with a solution for an issue as complicated as this. For the same reason I’m fine with Congress not doing anything right now. We don’t need a committee of 535, most of whom don’t understand the issues, interfering. I hope Paulson is including senior leadership in the discussions, especially if the solution includes passing a bill. Bush uncharacteristically picked someone extremely competent for these jobs, and he is not getting in the way, so let’s allow them to work. I think it is reasonable to find out the candidates’ basic economic philosophies, but not to expect them to come up with a plan for the current situation. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/32 "2008-09-20T01:53:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I hope Paulson is including senior leadership in the discussions, especially if the solution includes passing a bill. In the age of the Imperial Presidency? [Are you serious?](http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-finance/20080918/BUSINESS-FINANCIAL-CONGRESS-BRIEFING-DC/) > [@Rueters](#): > > U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke will meet with congressional leaders late on Thursday to discuss efforts to quell the Wall Street crisis, according to congressional aides > The meeting, at the request of Paulson and Bernanke, was called just hours after Republican and Democratic lawmakers complained for the second consecutive day that the administration was not consulting with them on the matter. > \ > Earlier on Thursday, House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio, complained that a closed-door meeting of his fellow House Republicans was canceled when no member of the administration showed up to discuss the government bailout of insurance giant American International Group that was announced this week. Don’t worry guys, King George and his band of merry men have it all well in hand… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206/33 "2008-09-20T02:16:24Z")
If McCain didn’t tell the North Vietnamese what the secret plan was after 5 years of torture, what makes you think you can get it now? Oh. Eight years of Bush. 'Nuff said. McCain plans to do what his buddy Phil Gramm, _ **a Texas idiot,** _ tells him to do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-doesnt-have-have-a-plan-for-the-economy/464206.md?page=1)