# McCain Gaffe Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582 "2008-06-11T16:14:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/21 "2008-06-11T19:46:23Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It belies his claim that he gives a crap about the troops (so does his support for keeping them in Iraq at all, for that matter). [/QUOTE] Oh, it fucking does not. Why is that exact amount the measure of giving a crap about the troops? Why not twice as much? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/22 "2008-06-11T19:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Oh, it fucking does not. Why is that exact amount the measure of giving a crap about the troops? Why not twice as much? [/QUOTE] Offering a free education to wounded vets is pretty much the _least_ we could fucking do. There’s really no good ethical argument for opposing that, and it’s all but impossible for anyone who _does_ oppose (for blatantly self-serving political reasons) it to argue with a straight face that he gives a rats ass about them. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/23 "2008-06-11T19:56:20Z")
[QUOTE=Plexi Guy] Cite? The only time he said anything at all was after Obama got up on his partisan soap box and accused him of being against the troops. At which point he defended his position on supporting an alternative GI bill, which still increased the monthly benefit by 35%. [/QUOTE] [McCain opposes expanding education benefits.](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4652517) [McCain defends opposition to GI bill.](http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/26/mccain/index.html) [He, in fact, gets a D on his voting record from veterans.](http://www.iava.org/full-ratings-list) I guess his rating improved with this last GI bill since he didn’t vote against it-- this time. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/24 "2008-06-11T19:59:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Oh, it fucking does not. Why is that exact amount the measure of giving a crap about the troops? Why not twice as much? [/QUOTE] Because twice as much won’t get you twice the education, but less than that much will preclude some (many?) from being able to afford a complete education at all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/25 "2008-06-11T20:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Offering a free education to wounded vets is pretty much the _least_ we could fucking do. [/quote] This isn’t about wounded vets-- it’s about all vets. > [@](#): > > There’s really no good ethical argument for opposing that, and it’s all but impossible for anyone who _does_ oppose (for blatantly self-serving political reasons) it to argue with a straight face that he gives a rats ass about them. Sure there is. We aren’t ethically obliged to give them anything more than they were told they’d get when they signed up. We are no more ethically bound to give them more than we are to give them a pony. McCain gave his reason for opposing this bill. I have no reason to not accept his explanation. It took political courage to stand by his convictions on this, since it’s such a Mom and Apple Pie type bill. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/26 "2008-06-11T20:37:59Z")
Well, there’s always the infamous inability to recall if he even _has_ a position on contraception, let alone what it would be if he could remember; “You know, I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception. . .” You simply have to read [the entire exchange](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/16/mccain-stumbles-on-hiv-prevention/) to get the full brunt of the idiocy on display. :eek: And although I wouldn’t classify it as a “gaffe”, he sure has flip-flopped on the issue of pulling troops out of wars. > [@John McCain](#): > > “The American people do not support the goals of nation-building, peace-making, law and order, and certainly not warlord hunting. . . For us to get into nation-building, law and order, etc., I think is a tragic and terrible mistake. Now is the time to get out of Somalia as rapidly and as promptly and as safely as possible.” > > “The right course of action is to make preparations as quickly as possible to bring our people home. . . This does not mean as soon as order is restored to Haiti. It doesn’t mean as soon as democracy is flourishing in Haiti. It doesn’t mean as soon as we have established a viable nation in Haiti. “As soon as possible” means as soon we can get out of Haiti without losing any American lives. . . It is my view and I want to make it clear, and I think the majority of the American people’s view that “As soon as possible” means “As soon as possible”, exactly what those words say. The Haitians were to police themselves. . .” From [here](http://news.aol.com/newsbloggers/2008/04/13/john-mccains-enormous-hypocrisy-on-the-war/). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/27 "2008-06-11T20:41:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] This isn’t about wounded vets-- it’s about all vets. [/quote] All vets includes wounded vets. What’s you’re point? The fact remains that he does not believe wounded vets deserve a free education if they were wounded on their first tour of duty. The fact that he would equally deprive _non_-wounded vets as wounded vets is not a mitigator. > [@](#): > > Sure there is. We aren’t ethically obliged to give them anything more than they were told they’d get when they signed up. We are no more ethically bound to give them more than we are to give them a pony. Wow, that’s cold. Of course, it’s also evasive. We’re talking about changing the contract for the future. Do you think a wounded vet desreves a free education? Yes or no? > [@](#): > > McCain gave his reason for opposing this bill. I have no reason to not accept his explanation. His explanation is that he’s worried about retention. He’s afraid the miltary isn’t going to be able to keep enough bullet sponges in Iraq so he wants to lengthen the stick on the carrot (of course, it seems to escape him that sweetening the GI Bill might actually help with their recruitment problems). > [@](#): > > It took political courage to stand by his convictions on this, since it’s such a Mom and Apple Pie type bill. He didn’t stand by his convictions, he sold out and pandered to his base. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/28 "2008-06-11T20:49:36Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] All vets includes wounded vets. What’s you’re point?[/'quote] My point is to not allow you to appeal to sympathy in your argument. You keep talking about wounded vets, but this bill is about all vets. > [@](#): > > Wow, that’s cold. Facts often are. > [@](#): > > Of course, it’s also evasive. There is nothing evasive about it. I was stating a fact. We are not ethically bound to give one-term vets anything more than they signed up for. > [@](#): > > We’re talking about changing the contract for the future. Do you think a wounded vet desreves a free education? Yes or no? I have not studied the issue enough to offer an educated answer. I can see valid arguments on both sides. > [@](#): > > His explanation is that he’s worried about retention. He’s afraid the miltary isn’t going to be able to keep enough bullet sponges in Iraq so he wants to lengthen the stick on the carrot (of course, it seems to escape him that sweetening the GI Bill might actually help with their recruitment problems). > > He didn’t stand by his convictions, he sold out and pandered to his base. What base is that? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/29 "2008-06-11T20:59:16Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He didn’t stand by his convictions, he sold out and pandered to his base. [/QUOTE] While at the same time [sucking on the public teat](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/22/us/politics/22health.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) for his $58,358 annual navy disability pension; tax free. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/30 "2008-06-11T21:09:57Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] What base is that? [/QUOTE] Whoever figures that out should let **him** know! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/31 "2008-06-11T21:34:54Z")
I don’t usually get involved in GD, but I’ll just jump in here: How do we decide who gets the GI Bill? All people serving? All people serving in combat? All people serving in combat who get wounded? I think that’s what John’s asking, and if not, I apoligize. Is there a line on supporting the troops? As for Mom and Apple Pie…hell, that’s been used so many damn times that it’s practically lost all meaning. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/32 "2008-06-11T21:40:35Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus] I don’t usually get involved in GD, but I’ll just jump in here: How do we decide who gets the GI Bill? All people serving? All people serving in combat? All people serving in combat who get wounded? I think that’s what John’s asking, and if not, I apoligize. Is there a line on supporting the troops? [/QUOTE] Yeah, pretty much. \*\*Diogenes \*\*wants to make this about wounded Iraq war veterans, but the Iraq war will be over eventually (Obama says he’ll bring the troops home in 16 months), and this bill will still be in effect. As I think about it, a fully paid education is too generous for serving one tour in the military. If disabled vets need more assistance, I’m all for that. But this bill is too sweeping. ---
**Author:** ![Plexi\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f6c823/32.png) [@Plexi\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plexi_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/33 "2008-06-11T21:44:30Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] All vets includes wounded vets. What’s you’re point? The fact remains that he does not believe wounded vets deserve a free education if they were wounded on their first tour of duty. The fact that he would equally deprive _non_-wounded vets as wounded vets is not a mitigator. [/QUOTE] Even worse, he’s against educating black single tour veterans as well! And female single tour veterans! And gay single tour veterans! And poor single tour veterans! Never before has the world seen such a heartless bigot! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/34 "2008-06-11T21:56:17Z")
[QUOTE=Plexi Guy] Even worse, he’s against educating black single tour veterans as well! And female single tour veterans! And gay single tour veterans! And poor single tour veterans! Never before has the world seen such a heartless bigot! [/QUOTE] What kind of strawman bullshit is this? The fact is, that people really are coming back wounded from Iraq and McCain really is saying they haven’t earned an education. The fact remains that McCain is saying that a guy who spends two years driving an M1 in Fallujah is less deserving of a free education that guy who spends 6 years driving a desk at Barksdale. Protesting that wounded vets aren’t the only ones McCain wants to screw does not alter the fact that he wants to screw them. ---
**Author:** ![Plexi\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f6c823/32.png) [@Plexi\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plexi_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/35 "2008-06-11T22:12:21Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The fact remains that McCain is saying that a guy who spends two years driving an M1 in Fallujah is less deserving of a free education that guy who spends 6 years driving a desk at Barksdale. [/QUOTE] And he also believes the guy who drives an M1 in Fallujah for 6 years **is more deserving** of a free education than a guy who spends 2 years a behind a desk at Barksdale. The ‘strawman’ bullshit is you trying to attribute to McCain a position on wounded soldiers that he does not have. I’d be right with you if it had been a disabilities benefits bill. It was not. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/36 "2008-06-11T22:16:49Z")
He told Matt Lauer this morning that when the troops come home is “not important”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/37 "2008-06-11T22:22:11Z")
[QUOTE=Plexi Guy] And he also believes the guy who drives an M1 in Fallujah for 6 years **is more deserving** of a free education than a guy who spends 2 years a behind a desk at Barksdale. [/quote] And in that case he would be right. The circumstances are not symmmetrical. Combat vets deserve a free ride _regardless_ of how many tours they serve? You disagree? > [@](#): > > The ‘strawman’ bullshit is you trying to attribute to McCain a position on wounded soldiers that he does not have. He most certainly does have it. he’s said so himself. He believes that a free education is too generous a reward for one enlistment, no matter how much they sacrifice. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/38 "2008-06-11T22:23:11Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] How 'bout when, during his speech to the Democratic electorate on the night Obama clinched, he said we have to give “hot bottled water to dehydrated babies”. I’m still scratching my head over that. [/QUOTE] In my household we’ve decided that he thinks that babies come in powdered form like dehydrated soup. You just add hot water and BAM … instant baby. Then you feed it to Dick Cheney. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/39 "2008-06-11T23:00:44Z")
McCain on the question of [PC vs MAC](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/mccain-admits-he-doesnt-k_n_106478.html): > [@John McCain](#): > > Neither. I am a illiterate that has to rely on my wife for all the assistance I can get. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/40 "2008-06-11T23:12:11Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What’s the debate here? Seems more like Pit material. [/QUOTE] I agree. So moved. So ordered. [/Modding] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582.md?page=3)