# McCain Gaffe Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582 "2008-06-11T16:14:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![paffinity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@paffinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paffinity)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/141 "2008-06-17T00:50:22Z")
I hate to say it, but it feels like a lot of people I respect on this board are suffering from the accusatory “you mean you _don’t_ support our troops?” type logic that Republicans use all the time. ``` While it sounds horrible to oppose a bill that would give wounded soldiers a free education, the fact is the bill would offer free education not only to those wounded in combat but everybody. How much would that actually cost? (That's not rhetorical, I really don't know). ``` ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/142 "2008-06-17T01:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=paffinity] While it sounds horrible to oppose a bill that would give wounded soldiers a free education, the fact is the bill would offer free education not only to those wounded in combat but everybody. How much would that actually cost? (That’s not rhetorical, I really don’t know). [/QUOTE] Think about it this way. Some are predicting it’ll decrease the number of troops who enlist for more than one tour(?), and some argue that it will increase the number who enlist in the first place. If you agree with the second premise, would it also not be possible that those who enlist because of the incentive might decide to, for that incentive as well as increasing benefits, pension points, etc., stay for more than one tour of duty? With our military stretched to the limit as it is right now and with the decrease/increase theories only projections, why not take a chance on higher incentives? It can’t be more that a drop in the bucket when compared to the billions that are being wasted (and mislaid) on the war anyway. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/143 "2008-06-17T01:17:43Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] Think about it this way. Some are predicting it’ll decrease the number of troops who enlist for more than one tour(?), and some argue that it will increase the number who enlist in the first place. If you agree with the second premise, would it also not be possible that those who enlist because of the incentive might decide to, for that incentive as well as increasing benefits, pension points, etc., stay for more than one tour of duty? With our military stretched to the limit as it is right now and with the decrease/increase theories only projections, why not take a chance on higher incentives? It can’t be more that a drop in the bucket when compared to the billions that are being wasted (and mislaid) on the war anyway. [/QUOTE] Why not take the more prudent course. Let’s see what McCain’s version of the plan would do to the numbers that stay in the military and to what degree it would act as an incentive for whatever new recruits we would need? Then, if we need to tweak it up, do it then. Why is that not the most prudent plan? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/144 "2008-06-17T01:37:02Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Why not take the more prudent course. Let’s see what McCain’s version of the plan would do to the numbers that stay in the military and to what degree it would act as an incentive for whatever new recruits we would need? Then, if we need to tweak it up, do it then. Why is that not the most prudent plan? [/QUOTE] I’m certainly not for opening the floodgates when it comes to compensation and spending of our tax dollars, but we need troops now. Passing a lesser bill and tweaking up might take too long to achieve what we need. Maybe I’m prejudiced because I remember how little my three brothers made in the armed forces, even during peacetime. They struggled. I’m all for being prudent and watchful of tax dollars, but to paraphrase a common bit of fidiciary advice, you don’t go cheap on something as important as a strong and healthy military. In this case we shouldn’t be penny-wise and pound-foolish. I believe that what these incentives are all about. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/145 "2008-06-17T01:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I’m certainly not for opening the floodgates when it comes to compensation and spending of our tax dollars, but we need troops now. Passing a lesser bill and tweaking up might take too long to achieve what we need. Maybe I’m prejudiced because I remember how little my three brothers made in the armed forces, even during peacetime. They struggled. I’m all for being prudent and watchful of tax dollars, but to paraphrase a common bit of fidiciary advice, you don’t go cheap on something as important as a strong and healthy military. In this case we shouldn’t be penny-wise and pound-foolish. I believe that what these incentives are all about. [/QUOTE] Then how do you know that this is the right plan. Based on how you frame the problem, shouldn’t we just hand over a bonus of say, 100K upon completion of the first term? Why not? What is so magically right about what has been proposed by Webb other than it’s been proposed? Do you agree that McCain’s version might actually accomplish what you feel needs to be accomplished. Finally, don’t you think it is wise to incentivize staying in the military for more then one term? ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/146 "2008-06-17T01:49:43Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] Then how do you know that this is the right plan. Based on how you frame the problem, shouldn’t we just hand over a bonus of say, 100K upon completion of the first term? Why not? What is so magically right about what has been proposed by Webb other than it’s been proposed? Do you agree that McCain’s version might actually accomplish what you feel needs to be accomplished. Finally, don’t you think it is wise to incentivize staying in the military for more then one term? [/QUOTE] I don’t know that this is the right plan. Like I said, I prefer incentives that get them in first. After that, I believe enough will be incentivized by the pension points, bonuses, and further remuneration to stay. I believe Webb’s plan will do a better job of accomplishing that than McCain’s. I also believe lawmakers are smart enough (gotta go, have to look that up tomorrow) to put a cap on the total education payment, so 100K seems rather hyperbolic. Even if open-ended, not all troops will end up going to Harvard, or even going to college. Many will go to community colleges or either reasonably priced institutions of higher learning. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/147 "2008-06-17T15:12:25Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] I don’t know that this is the right plan. Like I said, I prefer incentives that get them in first. After that, I believe enough will be incentivized by the pension points, bonuses, and further remuneration to stay. I believe Webb’s plan will do a better job of accomplishing that than McCain’s. I also believe lawmakers are smart enough (gotta go, have to look that up tomorrow) to put a cap on the total education payment, so 100K seems rather hyperbolic. Even if open-ended, not all troops will end up going to Harvard, or even going to college. Many will go to community colleges or either reasonably priced institutions of higher learning. [/QUOTE] One thing I think you’re overlooking is that even MCain’s version acts as an up-front incentive. The only difference being that someone has to stay in longer to avail themselves of the benefit. Granted, it’s not as attractive as the same benefit of=ver a shorter time, but it is an incentive nonetheless. I see no reason to not start with this. If we did, and we got the numbers of recruits we needed, wouldn’t that be a good thing? If on top of that it encouraged soldiers to stay in for another term, isn’t that a good thing, too? If we were able to accomplished the primary objective and do it for less money, isn’t that a good thing, as well? I don’t get why you think that McCain’s plan would not succeed in achieving our primary goal of attracting an adequate number of qualified recruits, but Webb’s plan magically would. If you’re so concerned with getting soldiers immediately and not pussy-footing around, why not give them $100,000 cash at the completion of their first term? Or more? I just don’t get what you think is so magical about Webb’s plan. And why you assume that McCains plan would fail. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/148 "2008-06-17T15:20:48Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Here’s a youtube full of McCain gaffes. Or lies. Or senior moments. Whatever you want to call them. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/GEtZlR3zp4c/hqdefault.jpg "McCain's YouTube Problem Just Became a Nightmare") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c) [/QUOTE] I had to laugh at the end of that video. “The ‘Straight Talk Express’ has derailed but the corporate media won’t cover the story.” This at the tail-end of a video compiled entirely of clips from “the corporate media” covering exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/149 "2008-06-17T16:46:58Z")
[QUOTE=Beadalin] I had to laugh at the end of that video. “The ‘Straight Talk Express’ has derailed but the corporate media won’t cover the story.” This at the tail-end of a video compiled entirely of clips from “the corporate media” covering exactly that. [/QUOTE] Well, not really. Only Tim Russett called him on his bullshit. And then he lied about that too. The rest are clips of him speaking and then directly contradicting what he said in another clip-- but there’s no one asking him which statement he actually believes. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/150 "2008-06-17T16:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Well, not really. Only Tim Russett called him on his bullshit. [/QUOTE] Or Tim Russert. God rest his soul. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/151 "2008-06-17T18:27:24Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] but there’s no one asking him which statement he actually believes. [/QUOTE] As we’ve seen on the Straight Talk Express, there is little point in asking McCain what he thinks. He doesn’t know or can’t remember. People like Mr. Brian Jones have to tell him what he thinks. It’s sad. Thank heavens one reporter was kind enough to ask him about a pig. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/152 "2008-07-10T03:29:06Z")
[This one](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_jokes_about_killing_ira.php)\* is just too stunning for words. A reporter is asking a question about exports to Iran, and mentions the fact that the biggest export is cigarettes, and John McCain interjects: > [@John McCain](#): > > Maybe thats a way of killing them. Har Har Har Har Har!! What a massive jackass. :mad: \*Link contains video – watch and listen for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/153 "2008-07-10T04:39:15Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] [This one](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mccain_jokes_about_killing_ira.php)\* is just too stunning for words. [/QUOTE] That was hilarious–for all the wrong reasons. The funniest part is thinking about how it’s going to affect his financial support from tobacco companies. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/154 "2008-07-10T13:49:01Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] On C-Span in 2004, McCain said, “Without privatization, I don’t see how you can possibly, over time, make sure that young Americans are able to receive Social Security benefits.” [/QUOTE] Not that young Americans _do_ receive Social Security benefits unless they’re disabled… ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/155 "2008-07-10T14:47:47Z")
Ach- dang. What a maroon. It’s embarrassing, currently, but what if he was president and said that? There’s just no nuance there at all. Anyone who knows anything knows that there is a difference between “Iran’s government” and “Iranians”. And that any hope we have of resolving this situation is to appeal to the latter against the former. It is just so ridiculously tone deaf to continually speak about harming Iranian _people_ as if that is a good goal. However, I know this will increase his support among my crazy cousin. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/156 "2008-07-10T15:20:51Z")
[QUOTE=stolichnaya] Ach- dang. What a maroon. It’s embarrassing, currently, but what if he was president and said that? [/QUOTE] The current President says stupider things all the time, and yet his mouth seems to be the least of our concerns these days. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/157 "2008-07-10T15:43:46Z")
To my knowledge, he doesn’t regularly make jokes about killing foreign civillians, even Iranians. I think such a joke made by a sitting president could rise to the level of “fighting words”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/158 "2008-07-10T16:12:32Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] He told Matt Lauer this morning that when the troops come home is “not important”. [/QUOTE] This thread is full of yikes. The business about voting against education for military veterans doesn’t bother me so much, but shit like this, and his appalling sense of humor (the kind of thing I’m used to seeing from messageboard jackasses, not from candidates), and his weaseling on positions, is just all kinds of yikes. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/159 "2008-07-11T04:44:00Z")
> [@John McCain](#): > > Neither. I am a illiterate that has to rely on my wife for all the assistance I can get. His wife who [does the military still have a points system? [/quote] Yep: 5 points for an Iraqi mailbox, 10 points for an Iraqi stop sign, 25 points for an Iraqi mother, 50 points for an Iraqi father… :eek: > [@Squink](#): > > sucking on the public teat Let’s be fair here. McCain bravely served the Navy and was a long-term torture victim on its behalf. While that makes it all the more repugnant that he doesn’t oppose American torture more vehemently, it cannot be said that he has failed to earn his disability benefits. > [@grayhairedmomma](#): > > I have a question. For someone who enters the military at age 18, serves 20 years and retires at age 38 - do they receive a college education during their service? It depends on how badly they want it, and it also depends on what you mean by “college education”. AIUI, it’s fairly easy to work your way up to at least an AA by correspondence in the military if you’re willing to put some effort into it. As they stand, the educational opportunities the military provides are excellent. > [@Dead Badger](#): > > I don’t see which of a President’s day-to-day tasks would be significantly enhanced by his being online You don’t? How about communicating with his people, the Army, etc. during a time-sensitive crisis where his wife is not available to help him? Oh, sure, there are plenty of people around who also know how to work computers, but not having his standard safety net around might make him confused and anxious. When you’re talking about someone who’s already pretty gaffe-prone, that can be a big deal. Do you really think that someone who has no working knowledge of basic modern communications devices would not be at all disadvantage in a modern-day equivalent to the Cuban Missile Crisis or a crisis like [url=[Operation Thunderbolt - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Thunderbolt)]this one](]almost defaulted on her mortgage? [quote=Sampiro)? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582/160 "2008-07-11T16:23:52Z")
Well, that was a mess, wasn’t it? Here’s hoping there’s no Hostile Dialect Gaffe Thread. The link I was trying to give y’all: [here.](http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20080701-9999-1m1mccain.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-gaffe-thread/452582.md?page=9)