# McCain: I Have No 'Plan B' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308 "2007-04-16T08:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/21 "2007-04-16T17:45:01Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] You know it is possible that we are watching a man honestly tell us what he thinks. That is not to say he is right, but that it is the truth as he sees it. A whacky theory, but it just might explain the facts. [/QUOTE] I think you’re right, which is what scares me. He’s so fixated on it being unacceptable for us to withdraw that he has no metrics to tell if what we’re doing is working. No matter how bad things get, it seems, there is no reason to change course until Bush is out, he’s in, and villagers with torches and pitchforks show up on the White House lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/22 "2007-04-16T17:47:17Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Sadr’s actions are subject to interpretation. Clearly, by whatever means, the Shia are going to win. Then the question becomes _which_ Shia. **WAG:** The Maliki government has two motives for “permitting” a continuing US presence. [/QUOTE] How about he needs to build up money in his Swiss bank account to pay for his upkeep when he gets the hell out of there when we finally do leave? Once the Green Zone is open, his life isn’t worth a plugged dinar. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/23 "2007-04-16T18:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] You know it is possible that we are watching a man honestly tell us what he thinks. That is not to say he is right, but that it is the truth as he sees it. A whacky theory, but it just might explain the facts. [/QUOTE] You know, it’s just crazy enough to work! In other news from Hollywood … ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/24 "2007-04-16T19:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And given _that_ statement, I’d say that unless his plan to get elected president includes assassinating everyone running against him, he’s got no plan there either. [/QUOTE] Well I think the republicans have made a royal mess of things, and I wouldn’t vote for republican on a bet, but it does surprise me when people expect McCain not to act like one. That _is_ his party. His campaign strategy probably won’t work, but what’s the alternative - support immediate withdrawal? Then he’d just lose hard-core republican support as well as failing to bring democrats over to his side. That would be an even _worse_ mistake. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/25 "2007-04-16T19:54:16Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > You know it is possible that we are watching a man honestly tell us what he thinks. That is not to say he is right, but that it is the truth as he sees it. > > A whacky theory, but it just might explain the facts. I’m pretty sure with McCain we’re seeing the real deal. The problem is that of a sunken cost fallacy with regards to his reputation. He has been Bush’s cheerleader on this war for too long to reverse course, despite the fact that continuing to carry Bush’s water can only end in him becoming wholly irrelevant in 2008 as far as informed, sensible voters are concerned. My only fear is there may be just enough of those sort of voters left. After all, this isn’t a new thing. Sure, he’s gone to new lows and has been a good provider of comedy as of late but this was his style back in early 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2007, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/26 "2007-04-16T23:10:38Z")
[QUOTE=dgrdfd] Oh, yeah. You got it buddy. We were staying the course and just about to turn the corner, and then the Democrats chickened out and lost the war because they hate America and love the terrorists. I swear I fucking hate people that espouse that bullshit. It’s so damned un-American. [/QUOTE] If it’s unAmerican, why do Americans keep doing it ? Unfortunately, that sort of behavior appears to be _very_ American. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/27 "2007-04-17T02:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Well I think the republicans have made a royal mess of things, and I wouldn’t vote for republican on a bet, but it does surprise me when people expect McCain not to act like one. [/QUOTE] “Republican” =/= “Dumb as a bag of hammers.” He could try acting like, you know, a Republican that’s not an idiot. Like [some of the other Republican candidates](http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=591536). > [@](#): > > Former Wisconsin governor Thompson says he would offer a dramatically different approach on Iraq (decentralizing the country and asking the Iraqi Parliament to vote up or down on the U.S. presence). > > Thompson spent four years in Bush’s cabinet, where he was publicly loyal to the president but appeared to chafe at times under White House direction. > > He was asked in a recent interview whether he thought GOP primary voters will look for a Republican candidate in the mold of Bush or something different. > > “The vast majority is looking for a new direction for the Republican Party,” he said. “They’re very concerned about the deficit, very concerned about a lack of engagement on health care and very tired of the war.” ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/28 "2007-04-17T02:52:27Z")
I remember right after the surge plan came out, people asked what Plan B was, and either Bush or his minions said something to the effect that Plan B was to make Plan A work. No, I thought, that would be Plan A. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/29 "2007-04-17T04:01:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I remember right after the surge plan came out, people asked what Plan B was, and either Bush or his minions said something to the effect that Plan B was to make Plan A work. > > No, I thought, that would be Plan A. Frighteningly enough, they might have been telling the truth. Enacting the surge might be all the plan they have for the moment. Putting some effort into trying to make it work might be getting put off for some future period. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/30 "2007-04-17T05:54:29Z")
[QUOTE=DoctorJ] I remember right after the surge plan came out, people asked what Plan B was, and either Bush or his minions said something to the effect that Plan B was to make Plan A work. No, I thought, that would be Plan A. [/QUOTE] They can’t have a Plan B. Having a Plan B would be admitting that Plan A might not work. But Plan A WILL work. It has to, that’s just the way it IS. They believe it will work, and therefore – IT WILL WORK. If you have a Plan B, the terrorists have won. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/31 "2007-04-17T12:07:25Z")
McCain’s support will inevitably wither after this statement in favor of the curtailment of contraceptive rights. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/32 "2007-04-17T12:32:10Z")
I don’t understand why every single presidential candidate isn’t against this war and against President Bush, if only for political reasons. Every candidate knows, as certain as a fact, two things about this war: 1. the majority of Americans (i.e. the majority of votors) do not support the war. 2. Bush plans on continuing the war until he’s out of office and it becomes someone else’s problem. The Democrat candidates know this. The Republican candidates know this. The President that’s elected will be left holding the bag in Iraq. He will inherit an entirely preventable problem and be blamed when things go badly before, during and after the inevitable pullout. For the sake of your own re-election in 2012, why would you not support what the overwhelming number of people want and what one man is singlehandedly trying to throw you under the bus for? Shift the burden! It’s pretty darn simple. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/33 "2007-04-17T14:47:46Z")
Because so many of them have already placed their bets. They’ve bet the farm, their asses and their futures that GeeDubya is going to draw one card to an inside straight flush. That the Kurds, Shia and Sunni will all dance around the oil derrick maypole singing the praises of GeeDubya. They’ve already pored over their public statements, looking for wriggle room, some way to cast gushing approval as stern criticism. “Well, I didn’t actually say that Bush was God, I meant he was _a_ god, a minor god, like Vulcan…” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/34 "2007-04-17T15:17:40Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Because so many of them have already placed their bets. They’ve bet the farm, their asses and their futures that GeeDubya is going to draw one card to an inside straight flush. That the Kurds, Shia and Sunni will all dance around the oil derrick maypole singing the praises of GeeDubya. They’ve already pored over their public statements, looking for wriggle room, some way to cast gushing approval as stern criticism. “Well, I didn’t actually say that Bush was God, I meant he was _a_ god, a minor god, like Vulcan…” [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, the Sunnis see their opportunity-and they are doing their best to kill as many American soldiers as they can. The message is clear-leave now, or be prepared for hundreds of dead. Did we ever think that maybe, it WOULD be a smart thing to set a withdrawl date? then we could see if the Al maliki government actually has any support. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/35 "2007-04-17T15:35:13Z")
[QUOTE=Enderw24] 1. the majority of Americans (i.e. the majority of votors) do not support the war. [/QUOTE] As a minor nitpick, the majority of Americans does not necessarily translate into a majority of voters. In fact, a number of polls showed Bush with sub-50% approval numbers on the day of his reelection. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/36 "2007-04-17T17:46:08Z")
I think the remaining pro-war candidates are counting on the fact that a lot of voters hate admitting we’ve lost in Iraq more than they hate actually losing in Iraq. So denial may get more votes than the truth - as it often has in the past. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/37 "2007-04-17T18:04:02Z")
[QUOTE=pool] All they do is say ad infinitum that we are making progress, that we must win this war that has no purpose or objectives . . . [/QUOTE] Oh, no. This war **has** a purpose, or at least it had at the beginning: To secure Iraq as a “coaling station,” a secure base for the projection of American military power throughout the MENA, as the Philippines once was a base for projection of American power throughout East Asia and the Pacific; all for the greater purpose of maintaining American global military hegemony. It’s just not a purpose they dare to state out loud. There were other purposes, of course, including enriching W’s cronies, and [several other mutually incompatible purposes.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=381910) But that was the main one. At present, the “coaling station” idea being no longer a realistic option in the long term as all but the most blinkered of the neocons must recognize, the purpose of staying there is simply to avoid admitting defeat. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/38 "2007-04-17T21:53:16Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] “Republican” =/= “Dumb as a bag of hammers.” [/quote] That’s _your_ characterization, not mine. > [@](#): > > He could try acting like, you know, a Republican that’s not an idiot. Like [some of the other Republican candidates](http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=591536). One example does not an entire party make. I didn’t say _every last republican_ supports continuing the war, but certainly you don’t dispute that republicans by and large tend to support the war much more than democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/39 "2007-04-17T22:07:44Z")
[Iraq opinion gulf leaving GOP in peril](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18159190/): > [@](#): > > (April 17, 2007) > Let’s look at the difference in attitudes on Iraq using a CBS News poll of 994 adults, conducted last Monday through Thursday, with a 3-point error margin. > > Overall, 44 percent said the United States did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq, while 51 percent said the United States should have stayed out. Among Republicans, 76 percent said it was the right thing to do and 20 percent said the U.S. should have stayed out. > … > Among just Republicans, 62 percent thought the war was going very or somewhat well, compared to 36 percent who said somewhat or very badly. > … > Among Republicans, 72 percent said success is very or somewhat likely, compared with just 27 percent of Democrats and 36 percent of independents ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/40 "2007-04-17T22:18:04Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] That’s _your_ characterization, not mine. [/QUOTE] Just to be clear, you know what “=/=” means, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308.md?page=3)