# McCain: I Have No 'Plan B' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308 "2007-04-16T08:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/41 "2007-04-17T22:26:59Z")
More from McCain (cited in Salon): > [@](#): > > In a GQ interview, Wil S. Hylton asks John McCain why he supports a “surge” in Iraq when polls show that a majority of Americans don’t. McCain’s response: “Because I know what’s best for the security of this nation.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/42 "2007-04-17T23:13:42Z")
[News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines - AOL.com](http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/britain-stops-using-war-on-terror-phrase/20070416185709990001The) war on terror is over. McClain said last week that the fact that nobody, himself included, knows what he will say next is part of his charm. I do not want a charming prez. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/43 "2007-04-18T00:25:34Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Just to be clear, you know what “=/=” means, right? [/QUOTE] I don’t. Same as “=!”? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/44 "2007-04-18T15:46:41Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] One example does not an entire party make. I didn’t say _every last republican_ supports continuing the war, but certainly you don’t dispute that republicans by and large tend to support the war much more than democrats? [/QUOTE] Certainly not, but I’m not about to let it colour my perception to the point of compositional fallacy. You expressed surprise that people seem to be surprised by how obtuse McCain is being about this. The thing is, Republicans are not all blind ideologues, and until fairly recently McCain was evidently in the set of “reasoning Republican.” This level of willful blindness is surprising in any individual, regardless of political affiliation – but it’s _especially_ surprising in Senator McCain, who has fallen a great distance by any number of metrics. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t. Same as “=!”? I don’t quite recognize that. Is it “comment?” It’s tickling the back of my brain. “=/=” is “is not equal to,” though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/45 "2007-04-18T16:36:49Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] I don’t quite recognize that. Is it “comment?” It’s tickling the back of my brain. “=/=” is “is not equal to,” though. [/QUOTE] “=!” also means “does not equal.” (At least for Internet purposes, most keyboards lacking the appropriate mathematical/logical symbol.) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/46 "2007-04-18T17:30:58Z")
Excuse me, but the commonly used “not equal” symbols used (excluding the “true” not equal symbol ≠ ) are: \<\> or != (the exclamation point first - C programming language syntax) =/= is one I’ve only seen at this message board, though according to wikipedia ( [Equals sign - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_sign#Related_symbols) ) it’s used in some programming language. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/47 "2007-04-18T17:36:38Z")
In any case, I didn’t see in the article what he means by “viable signs of progress.” The article had this quote: “Mr. McCain said that the increase in American forces had led to a decline of sectarian killings in the Iraqi capital.” Does that include the recent [166 people killed in today’s bombings](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/18/iraq.main/index.html)? ([cnn.com](http://cnn.com)) He must have been referring to the fact that a US politician can safely stroll through an open-air Baghdad street market. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/48 "2007-04-18T18:32:40Z")
[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried] In any case, I didn’t see in the article what he means by “viable signs of progress.” The article had this quote: “Mr. McCain said that the increase in American forces had led to a decline of sectarian killings in the Iraqi capital.” Does that include the recent [166 people killed in today’s bombings](http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/04/18/iraq.main/index.html)? ([cnn.com](http://cnn.com)) He must have been referring to the fact that a US politician can safely stroll through an open-air Baghdad street market. [/QUOTE] The real key to success will be when the Iraqi factions come together to form a government that all can support. Maybe it’s part of the good news about Iraq that the liberal media supresses, but I haven’t heard a lot about progress in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/49 "2007-04-18T20:36:27Z")
OT, but speaking of Tommy Thompson… [Tommy Thompson speaks to Jewish community group.](http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=591756) > [@](#): > > GOP presidential candidate Tommy Thompson apologized to a Jewish audience Monday after saying that making money is “sort of part of the Jewish tradition.” […] > > Thompson misspoke a few other times at the conference, according to more than one person present. > > Blogging about the speech Monday, Rosner wrote that Thompson referred to “Israeli bonds” as “Jewish bonds.” Another member of the audience said Thompson referred to the Jewish Defense League, a controversial militant group, when he appeared to have a more mainstream organization in mind. Maybe “Republican” _does_ equal “Dumb as a bag of hammers.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/50 "2007-04-18T21:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Just to be clear, you know what “=/=” means, right? [/QUOTE] Aw Christ! Why is making a simple point always like pulling teeth? 1. Larry Mud said, in response to my post: "‘Republican’ =/= “Dumb as a bag of hammers.” 2. I assume “=/=” to mean “not equal to” 3. Since I NEVER SAID “Republicans are dumb as a bag of hammers”, Larry Mud’s comment to me that they are _not_ so, implies a characterization that I did not make. Fuck, people - what exactly is hard about this? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/51 "2007-04-18T21:46:51Z")
[QUOTE=Orbifold] Let’s see if we can predict the success of this plan with FutureVision[sup]tm[/sup]: “Ladies and gentlemen, with 30% of the votes in across the country, we are now prepared to call the 2008 Presidential Election for…this inanimate carbon rod! A stunning landslide victory for the write-in candidate against Senator John McCain.” …hm. [/QUOTE] Whoa, you really think Gore’s going to throw his hat back into the ring? ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/52 "2007-04-18T21:51:09Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] Certainly not, but I’m not about to let it colour my perception to the point of compositional fallacy. [/quote] WTF??? How is acknowledging that it’s characteristic of Republicans to support the war, and hence not surprising for McCain, _a republican_ to do so, a “compositional fallacy”? > [@](#): > > You expressed surprise that people seem to be surprised by how obtuse McCain is being about this. The thing is, Republicans are not all blind ideologues, and until fairly recently McCain was evidently in the set of “reasoning Republican.” I don’t think he’s being particularly obtuse, any more than I think _all_ republicans who still support the war are being obtuse. I just don’t understand why it’s surprising to anyone. > [@](#): > > This level of willful blindness is surprising in any individual, regardless of political affiliation – but it’s _especially_ surprising in Senator McCain, who has fallen a great distance by any number of metrics. Of course I don’t agree with his position, but I don’t find it particularly shocking that he still supports the war at this stage of the game. Sure, I personally don’t find it to be a tenable position, but I’m a democrat, and there are many positions republicans hold that I don’t find tenable. That doesn’t mean I think they’re all stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/53 "2007-04-18T22:18:35Z")
I don’t understand why you are having trouble understanding why people find it remarkable that a politician who has previously shown himself to be quite canny has become so astonishingly politically tony-deaf, **lowbrass**. This is John McCain we’re talking about – you know, the guy who has done so well politically on the strength of his reputation for standing up for what he believes _even when it goes against the party line._ We’re grown to know him over a decade or so, and he’s been all about, you know, _integrity_ and stuff. _Now_ he is _all_ party line, and dumb as a bag of hammers to boot. It’s disorienting. It’s remarkable. Hence, people are talking about it. If it was some other asshole, I would tend to agree with you: “Yawn, no surprise here.” But it’s _John McCain_. John Pantsing McCain. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/54 "2007-04-18T22:32:06Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] It’s disorienting. It’s remarkable. Hence, people are talking about it. [/QUOTE] I don’t find John McCain supporting the war to be that remarkable. But certainly, as reasonable people, we can disagree on that. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/55 "2007-04-18T22:50:12Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Fuck, people - what exactly is hard about this? [/QUOTE] Maybe if your posts were more coherent we wouldn’t have to ask you what you meant by them. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/56 "2007-04-19T17:19:31Z")
[McCain and his golden tongue at work.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/57 "2007-04-19T17:31:23Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] [McCain and his golden tongue at work.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg) [/QUOTE] Can you describe that? I don’t like to look at YouTube links at work, even on break. Edit: Maybe I am too scrupulous though, I just _this moment_ received a YouTube link from a co-worker, sent to all employees. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/58 "2007-04-19T17:48:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Republican presidential contender John McCain (news, bio, voting record), known for having a quirky sense of humor, joked about bombing > Iran at a campaign appearance this week. > > In response to an audience question about military action against Iran, the Arizona senator briefly sang the chorus of the surf-rocker classic “Barbara Ann.” > > “That old, eh, that old Beach Boys song, Bomb Iran,” he said in jest Wednesday, chuckling with the crowd. Then, he softly sang to the melody: “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, anyway, ah …” The audience responded with more laughter. [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap\_on\_el\_pr/on\_the2008\_trail\_37](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/ap_on_el_pr/on_the2008_trail_37) ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/59 "2007-04-19T18:18:16Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Maybe if your posts were more coherent we wouldn’t have to ask you what you meant by them. [/QUOTE] So this exchange: Larry Mudd: “Republican” =/= “Dumb as a bag of hammers.” Lowbrass: “That’s your characterization, not mine.” Is not coherent to you? Where Larry Mudd said Republicans are not as dumb as a bag of hammers, and I pointed out that _he_ was the one who made that characterization and not me? (i.e. I never said they were dumb as a bag of hammers) That’s incoherent to you? Really? I mean, it’s pretty much English I’m writing here. Don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/60 "2007-04-19T19:18:23Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] This is John McCain we’re talking about – you know, the guy who has done so well politically on the strength of his reputation for standing up for what he believes _even when it goes against the party line._ We’re grown to know him over a decade or so, and he’s been all about, you know, _integrity_ and stuff. _Now_ he is _all_ party line, and dumb as a bag of hammers to boot. [/quote] No. McCain has been a loyal Bush/GOP cog since around the invasion of Iraq. Also see: the entire 2004 Presidential election cycle. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308.md?page=4)