# McCain: I Have No 'Plan B' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 16, 2007, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308 "2007-04-16T08:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/61 "2007-04-19T20:17:44Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] [McCain and his golden tongue at work.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg) [/QUOTE] Man, that was pretty damn stupid, even though he was doing it in jest. Someone running for president shouldn’t joke about bombing a country, **especially one that we might actually bomb at some point.** Does anyone have audio of what he said afterwards? The YouTube version I saw cut off right after the bomb, bomb, bomb ditty. Not that I think he can redeem himself after that stupid remark, but I hope he at least tried to do so… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/62 "2007-04-19T20:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] So this exchange […] is not coherent to you? Where Larry Mudd said Republicans are not as dumb as a bag of hammers, and I pointed out that _he_ was the one who made that characterization and not me? (i.e. I never said they were dumb as a bag of hammers) [/QUOTE] This is where your confusion lies: You had said that you didn’t understand why people were surprised that McCain was acting like a Republican. My point is that people aren’t reacting to the fact that he’s acting like a Republican, they are reacting to the fact that he’s acting _as dumb as a bag of hammers._ Because these are not equivalent terms, that reaction is [not neatly divided along party lines](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3053012&page=1). > [@](#): > > Voter rejection of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., the candidate who’s most staunchly backed the Iraq War, has spiked in the last year, to the point where nearly half of Americans — including a quarter of Republicans — say they definitely would not support him for president. And yes, your suggestion that the statement “‘Republican’ is not equal to ‘dumb as a bag of hammers’” can be parsed as a characterization of Republicans as dumb as a bag of hammers _is_ rather incoherent. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/63 "2007-04-19T21:26:53Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [The](http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/britain-stops-using-war-on-terror-phrase/20070416185709990001) war on terror is over. [/QUOTE] So is [The Long War:](http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBJ65IOO0F.html) > [@](#): > > “The Long War,” a phrase coined by former U.S. Central Command chief John Abizaid to convey the time needed to defeat the religious extremism fueling al-Qaida, has been jettisoned by his successor, Adm. William Fallon. > … > “The change in vernacular is a product of our ongoing effort to use language that describes the conflict for our western audience while understanding the cultural implications of how that language is construed in the Middle East,” McLaughlin wrote in an e-mail. > > “In this case, the idea that we are going to be involved in a ‘Long War,’ at the current level of operations, is not likely and unhelpful,” ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/64 "2007-04-19T21:33:27Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Mudd] And yes, your suggestion that the statement “‘Republican’ is not equal to ‘dumb as a bag of hammers’” can be parsed as a characterization of Republicans as dumb as a bag of hammers _is_ rather incoherent. [/QUOTE] Now _that’s_ incoherent. My post was quite clear. What you have written above makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/65 "2007-04-19T22:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] My post was quite clear. [/QUOTE] Not really. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/66 "2007-04-19T22:26:16Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] So is [The Long War:](http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGBJ65IOO0F.html) [/QUOTE] I think General Zinni’s take on the war is the most realistic I’ve seen. I’m finding it hard to believe that anyone is going to get us out of there anytime soon. From his interview last week on [Meet the Press:](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18094428/) > [@](#): > > MR. RUSSERT: In a briefing paper you’ve written for the World Security Institute and also in “The Battle for Peace,” you write about realities. You say our “first reality is we should acknowledge is that” there’s “no brilliant short-term strategic option or stroke of genius waiting to be unveiled. > > “The second reality is that we cannot simply pull out, as much we may want to. The consequences of a destabilized and chaotic Iraq, sitting in the center of a critical region of the world, could have catastrophic implications. > > “The third reality is that there is no short-term solution. It will take years to stabilize Iraq. How many? I believe at least five to seven. > > And “the fourth reality is that the” problems “cannot be solved by simply addressing the security issues.” > > \ > > MR. RUSSERT: Realistically, how many American troops do you think will be in Iraq by the end of 2008? > > GEN. ZINNI: Oh, I think by the end of 2008, you may see a slight reduction of what we have now, but I think it’s going to be pretty close to the same. I would say they may not all be in Iraq. We may see a realignment. We may go into a containment strategy that helps us control the borders. We may position troops where we can react under certain circumstances, where the rules of engagement would have us go after al-Qaeda, reinforce the Iraqis, probably, by then, extract ourselves, certainly, from any of the sectarian violence in the areas where it’s Sunni on Shia or, or places where the Iraqis should be taking the lead in, in dealing with it. Emphasis added. This is from someone who has been severely critical of Bush, and who did not support the invasion of Iraq. Not an optimistic outlook, but a realistic one, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![lowbrass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dc4da7/32.png) [@lowbrass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lowbrass)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/67 "2007-04-19T22:33:54Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Not really. [/QUOTE] _sigh_ Apparently I don’t speak message-board. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/68 "2007-04-19T22:46:36Z")
In addition to analyzing the consequences of our leaving it would have been great had Russert asked for analysis of the consequences of our staying. Staying on for years in the midst of a vicious civil war in an unstable reagion of the world with neighboring nations who have an interest in the outcome. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/69 "2007-04-25T17:41:28Z")
Apparently, Jon Stewart handing McCain his ass [worked.](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aG1ztPx4ysgQ&refer=home) > [@](#): > > Speaking to a noontime crowd of about 800 people at a waterfront park in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, McCain said the 2008 election ``should be about big things, not small ones.‘’ > > Foremost among these, he said, is the global war on terror. Without mentioning President George W. Bush,\*\* McCain called for a new look at the U.S. strategy in the battle. \*\* > > ``We must rethink and rebuild the structure and mission of our military; the capabilities of our intelligence and law enforcement agencies; the purposes of our alliances; the reach and scope of our diplomacy; the capacity of all branches of government to defend us,‘’ the Arizona Republican said. _(emphasis mine)_ ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/70 "2007-04-25T18:10:22Z")
Apparently, McCain and Stewart have, or rather, had, some kind of personal positive relationship, before McCain went to the fundies. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/71 "2007-04-25T19:06:20Z")
Oh thank god, now we can redesign and retask the military. Again. It’s like a Dilbert comic. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/72 "2007-04-26T08:25:14Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I think General Zinni’s take on the war is the most realistic I’ve seen. I’m finding it hard to believe that anyone is going to get us out of there anytime soon. This is from someone who has been severely critical of Bush, and who did not support the invasion of Iraq. Not an optimistic outlook, but a realistic one, I’m afraid. [/QUOTE] For while now, I’ve been pushing for General Zinni as the man with the goods upstairs. Watch that space and bookmark any mention of him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308/73 "2007-04-26T23:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] **McCain: I Have No ‘Plan B’** [/QUOTE] Come to think of it, I thought “The Surge” **was** Plan B. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-i-have-no-plan-b/400308.md?page=3)