# McCain not as forked as the McCain Forked thread, but still forked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951 "2008-10-08T03:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/921 "2008-10-31T23:22:32Z")
And then the purge. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/922 "2008-10-31T23:27:57Z")
And then the scourge. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/923 "2008-10-31T23:34:06Z")
We’re on the verge of submerging the dirge! \ ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/924 "2008-10-31T23:36:06Z")
…and then the dirge ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/925 "2008-10-31T23:38:31Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > [McCain pinning his hopes on TV and _not_ “boots on the ground.”](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/30/AR2008103004167.html) Is it just me or is this a horrible idea? I would think that there are very, very few persuadable voters left, but a much larger number of McCain voters who might not vote without a bit of prodding on Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/926 "2008-10-31T23:44:00Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Is it just me or is this a horrible idea? I would think that there are very, very few persuadable voters left, but a much larger number of McCain voters who might not vote without a bit of prodding on Tuesday. It is a very bad idea and shows just how strategically stupid the McCain campaign is. Frankly, at this point, most people have really made up their minds. The push now should be to get the people who do like you to get out and mark those ballots. McCain is trying to lure a very small and constantly shrinking group of undecideds while leaving his committeds to find their own way to the polls. His committeds aren’t idiots…they’re relatively rational adults (apart from their choice of who to vote for), so they don’t really need their hands held, but they do need motivation. There are a million reasons not to go out of your way to the polls on election day: too busy, can’t get off work, the kids are sick, you’re not feeling well, your vote won’t matter anyway, etc. etc. etc.. GOTV is the difference between getting 30% of the voters who favor you to actually vote and getting 50% or more of those voters to vote. In other words, most of the brass rings are already gone, but McCain is still reaching for that last one when he should be herding people onto the carousel. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/927 "2008-10-31T23:50:46Z")
Their hope is that persuadables (allegedly one in seven voters) can all be persuaded to go his way. They believe they will all break late. Hey, any hope is better than hope I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/928 "2008-11-01T00:00:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > It is a very bad idea and shows just how strategically stupid the McCain campaign is. In my opinion, it demonstrates how badly McCain has been outfoxed. Obama has gained in fifteen key states — maybe twenty or more — and McCain can’t hope to defend them all. Obama’s making McCain play on a much wider map than McCain ever intended. He’s even got McCain on defense in his _home state._ All part of the plan. On top of that, he’s captured the last important news cycle of the weekend with his extravagant infomercial. There’s no way McCain can plug every leak, block every shot, counter every ad, fight on every front. If McCain puts boots on the ground he gives up the airwaves. If McCain defends his home state he gives up money to spend in Florida. If McCain rushes to rally seven states on Monday, there’s eight more he has to let slip by. It’s like watching Kasparov being taken apart by Big Blue. Kasparov is down to one king, a rook, a knight, and a single pawn (Palin, who’s marching across the board doing her own thing, hoping eventually _she_ will be the queen), and Big Blue has got checkmate coming from six different directions. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/929 "2008-11-01T00:04:23Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > We’re on the verge of submerging the dirge! > > \ > [@phungi](#): > > …and then the dirge Thank Og for the end of the Obama glurge! ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/930 "2008-11-01T00:08:08Z")
McCain [doesn’t pass the freshness test](http://www.nationaljournal.com/njmagazine/st_20031017_1717.php): > [@](#): > > With only one exception since the presidency of Theodore Roosevelt, no one has been elected president who took more than 14 years to climb from his first major elective office to election as either president or vice president. > > George W. Bush took six years. Bill Clinton, 14. George H.W. Bush, 14 (to the vice presidency). Ronald Reagan, 14. Jimmy Carter, six. Richard Nixon, six (to vice president). John Kennedy, 14. Dwight Eisenhower, zero. Harry Truman, 10 (to vice president). Franklin Roosevelt, four. Herbert Hoover, zero. Calvin Coolidge, four. Warren Harding, six. Woodrow Wilson, two. William Howard Taft, zero. Theodore Roosevelt, two (to vice president). The one exception: Lyndon Johnson’s 23 years from his first House victory to the vice presidency. > > Wait a minute: zero? Right. The rule is a maximum, not a minimum. Generals and other famous personages can go straight to the top. But if a politician first runs for some other major office, the 14-year clock starts ticking. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/931 "2008-11-01T00:15:43Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Actually, lines should be shorter on election day, as there will be a lot more polling places open then. Just to expand on that, Fulton County (which encompasses downtown Atlanta) has 7 polling stations open for advance voting this week. On Tuesday, Fulton County will have 261 polling stations open. So Georgia should be able to handle the rush. I dropped by my assigned polling station in DeKalb County (just east of Atlanta) this evening, as the polls were closing (7:00p.m.). There were approximately 800 people in line, and poll workers said it had been that way all day. It was taking voters 2 hours 45 minutes to get through the line. (Everyone in line by 7:00 gets to vote, BTW.) Poll workers said after a couple of glitches on Monday, voting had been going smoothly all week, and the lines were moving through quickly considering how much is on the ballot this time. There were few problems with Georgia’s voter ID system, which had been a concern going into this The voters at my station were almost all African American. (Maybe one out of 100 might have been white.) I saw a lot of very young voters (obvious first-timers) which was very encouraging. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/932 "2008-11-01T00:20:45Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > It’s like watching Kasparov being taken apart by Big Blue. Kasparov is down to one king, a rook, a knight, and a single pawn (Palin, who’s marching across the board doing her own thing, hoping eventually she will be the queen), and Big Blue has got checkmate coming from six different directions. Fucking awesome analogy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/933 "2008-11-01T00:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > If McCain defends his home state he gives up money to spend in Florida. McCain’s an absolute fool to defend Arizona. If Arizona’s even close, then Obama is already so far ahead in the rest of the country that he’s won anyway, with or without it. The same argument also says that Obama shouldn’t bother with Arizona, of course. But he’s far enough ahead, both politically and financially, that he can afford to go for symbolic victories, and to give his opponent more opportunities to make mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/934 "2008-11-01T00:31:15Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Obama’s making McCain play on a much wider map than McCain ever intended. And – don’t forget – over the full time scale. First sunrise to final sunset, starting line to finish line. The really remarkable thing is, there’s no way the McCain camp should have been surprised by this big-picture wire-to-wire strategy, because it’s exactly what Obama did to Clinton in the primary. Everything Obama is doing now, he already did several months ago. Oh, and yeah, your chess metaphor is pretty fucking cool, too. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/935 "2008-11-01T00:53:30Z")
[Scare tactics](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-xkB0FOJFU) #8972 ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/936 "2008-11-01T00:58:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > McCain’s an absolute fool to defend Arizona. … The same argument also says that Obama shouldn’t bother with Arizona, of course Of course! But it’s all part of the grand strategy. Make McCain defend _everywhere_, all at the same time. He’s doing this to McCain _because he can_ — and because he’s not playing for a slo-mo instant-replay photo-finish let’s-go-to-the-judges ending. Obama’s playing to run up the score. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/937 "2008-11-01T01:06:13Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Actually, lines should be shorter on election day, as there will be a lot more polling places open then. Still, the fact that people are willing to wait 8 hours to vote is striking. [Its estimated that 2/3rds of the population of Colorado has _already_ voted.](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/10/mccains-mountain-of-problem.html) That’s pretty mindboggling. > [@jayjay](#): > > It is a very bad idea and shows just how strategically stupid the McCain campaign is. Frankly, at this point, most people have really made up their minds. The push no NPR said today that the majority of “undecideds” are people who **don’t** vote. Meaning that the number of people McCain could hope to flip his way is even smaller than it first appears. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/938 "2008-11-01T01:07:13Z")
I also think Obama has to target these states for a larger, philosophical reason. He keeps telling us that there is no red state/blue state divide. That means, he can’t treat states that are traditionally red states like they are unimportant or unnecessary. They _are_ important and they _are_ necessary. Now, real world considerations make it impossible to have a real 50 vote strategy, most of the time, but since he does have the money, why not treat some non-battleground states like they matter? ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Charles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Greg\_Charles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greg_Charles)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/939 "2008-11-01T01:31:34Z")
There are fewer than 100 hours now until the final polls on the West Coast close, so unless Hawaii turns into a crucial pivotal state, it’ll be all be over then. 100 hours after two years. It seems almost unreal. Sorry thread, I don’t trust the fork test this year. I’m waiting for the smoke detector to go off. (Sadly, this is disturbingly close to the way I really cook.) 100 hours … 6000 minutes … 360000 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/940 "2008-11-01T02:20:18Z")
WTF? Drudge says there’s a Zogby poll showing McCain UP by ONE. Where the hell did that come from? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=46) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=48)