# McCain not as forked as the McCain Forked thread, but still forked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951 "2008-10-08T03:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/81 "2008-10-09T00:26:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Can someone explain the funding situation to me? I’ve always wondered exactly how much it _takes_ to run a full-tilt campaign. Will Obama blow through every penny that he raised and “go broke”? Would McCain end up having leftover money? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/82 "2008-10-09T00:55:25Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > The context:I’d say no. Just a very weird slip of the brain. > > What word did he _mean_ to use there? The context reads to me as if he meant to say “my fellow Americans.” I submit that the nature of this mental slip reveals that McCain believes America to be a prison and yearns to be set free from the bonds of citizenship. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/83 "2008-10-09T01:25:36Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > I’m Barack Obama. I’ve been running for president for a year. I’ve given x speeches in y cities and z states…I’ve engaged in 18 debates, including 2 with Sen. McCain. All my policies and plans are available for view at [obama.gov](http://obama.gov). If Sen. McCain doesn’t know who I am by now, he’s not paying attention. I’m **Captain Carrot** , and I heartily endorse this product and/or service. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/84 "2008-10-09T02:40:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > For what it’s worth, the Bradley effect pretty much disappeared in the '90s, from what I’ve heard and read. I heard an interesting theory tonight from Gov. Mike Easley of NC that is exactly the opposite of the Bradley effect. He thinks that a lot of good ol’ boy types who have fallen on hard economic times will never, ever admit they are thinking of voting for Obama, and yet that is exactly what they will do in the privacy of the voting booth on Nov. 4th. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/85 "2008-10-09T02:45:02Z")
I’m not going to argue that the Republicans weren’t due for a reality check, but at this point I almost have to feel sorry for the guy. (At the very least, he should be resentful that Dubya got a free ride for years and years while he’s not even going to be elected at all.) He’s not charismatic, Bush is a 10-ton albatross around his neck, he has no compassion whatsoever for our armed forces dying for no purpose in Iraq, he doesn’t have any realistic solutions, the media’s sick of propping him up, and _he’s freakin’ old_. What the hell does he have going for him, other than racism, ignorance, and blind loyalty? And how would you like knowing that that’s your only shot at victory? Damn. Retribution can be cold, but this is North Pole territory. BEFORE all the global warming. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/86 "2008-10-09T02:53:24Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > What the hell does he have going for him, other than racism, ignorance, and blind loyalty? Fear. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/87 "2008-10-09T02:55:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > For what it’s worth, the Bradley effect pretty much disappeared in the '90s, from what I’ve heard and read. > [@Frostillicus](#): > > I heard an interesting theory tonight from Gov. Mike Easley of NC that is exactly the opposite of the Bradley effect. He thinks that a lot of good ol’ boy types who have fallen on hard economic times will never, ever admit they are thinking of voting for Obama, and yet that is exactly what they will do in the privacy of the voting booth on Nov. 4th. The Wikipedia page on this is well cited and it does point out why the Bradley effect could be gone and the doubts of it being a factor today: > **[Bradley effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect)** > > The Bradley effect, less commonly known as the Wilder effect, is a theory concerning observed discrepancies between voter opinion polls and election outcomes in some United States government elections where a white and a non-white candidate run against each other. The theory proposes that some white voters who intend to vote for the white candidate will nonetheless tell pollsters that they are undecided or likely to vote for the non-white candidate. It was named after Los Angeles M The Bradley ... > [@](#): > > While their cause continues to be debated—for example, many polls underpoll African-Americans and young voters—the pollsters’ errors have raised expectations that as the presidential primary season progresses, Obama’s polling numbers will be widely scrutinized as analysts try to definitively determine whether the Bradley effect has become a significant factor in the race.[45] An inspection of the discrepancy between pre-election polls and Obama’s ultimate support [2] reveals significant bivariate support for the hypothesized “reverse Bradley effect.” On average, Obama received **three percentage points more support** in the actual primaries and caucuses than he did during polling; however, he also had a strong ground campaign, and many polls do not question voters with cellphones, who are predominantly young.[46] I do think that even if the Bradley effect is present, it will be overwhelmed by people going for the reverse of the effect and by the ground campaign. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/88 "2008-10-09T03:04:06Z")
> [@DKW](#): > > What the hell does he have going for him, other than racism, ignorance, and blind loyalty? So McCain has three chief weapons… > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > > [@DKW](#): > > > > What the hell does he have going for him, other than racism, ignorance, and blind loyalty? > > Fear. Four. Four chief weapons… ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/89 "2008-10-09T03:07:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Fear. But the only thing we… Wait. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/90 "2008-10-09T03:13:27Z")
Obama has basically called McCain out: > [@](#): > > [Obama: McCain Scoring ‘Cheap Political Points’](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=5985237) > > “I am surprised that, you know, we’ve been seeing some pretty over-the-top attacks coming out of the McCain campaign over the last several days, that he wasn’t willing to say it to my face. But I guess we’ve got one last debate. So presumably, if he ends up feeling that he needs to, he will raise it during the debate.” So, does he knock it off with the mudslinging (giving up his last remaining weapon), does he take it direct to the debates (and repel everyone outside his hardcore base), or does he keep doing what he’s doing now (and look like a total chickenshit coward)? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/91 "2008-10-09T03:13:41Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > So McCain has three chief weapons… > Four. Four chief weapons… I never expected the Spanish… to still be so upset after McCain dissed their prime minister. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/92 "2008-10-09T03:27:26Z")
There’s an interesting [article on the alleged Bradley effect over at FiveThirtyEight.com](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/08/persistent-myth-of-bradley-effect.html), which includes a look at the Democratic primary polls versus the actual results. The author’s point in looking at Democrats is that in his opinion, the presence of a Bradley effect would be more pronounced in those who’d feel obligated to lie about voting for Obama. Republicans and, to a lesser degree, Independents, would need no excuse for voting for McCain other than their party affiliation. Secretly racist Dems would probably have a more acute guilt feeling. To be honest, I don’t buy the Bradley effect either. There _are_ reasons to vote for McCain – of course, I think they’re absolute bullshit and no one woith a brain would believe 'em, but that’s my obvious and cheerfully admitted prejudice – so why would someone seriously bother lying about their actual vote to some pollster? If they’re actually feeling guilty about being a racist, they could just pretend to be like so many other McCain voters and say they’re voting for him ‘cause of his experience and maverickism and good ol’ fashioned Christian values or whatever is passing for an excuse in their wee tiny brainlets. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/93 "2008-10-09T03:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > I never expected the Spanish… to still be so upset after McCain dissed their prime minister. Well-played. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/94 "2008-10-09T05:28:47Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > As far as the Bradley effects goes i just can’t believe that nowadays people would feel the need to lie to anonymous pollsters. Really? There’s a thread in IMHO where lots of people are proudly proclaiming that they lie to pollsters. Threads like that and also the one where people are proudly proclaiming that they don’t vote, plus other factors, bolster my certainty that McCain will win in a landslide of epic proportions. I don’t care what the polls say. Polls lie, because people lie. I’d love to be wrong, but there’s nothing I’m reading or hearing anywhere that gives me actual hope that Obama will win. If I foolishly start feeling optimistic, there’s always a thread in IMHO that will bring me back down to earth. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/95 "2008-10-09T05:40:39Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Really? There’s a thread in IMHO where lots of people are proudly proclaiming that they lie to pollsters. Threads like that and also the one where people are proudly proclaiming that they don’t vote, plus other factors, bolster my certainty that McCain will win in a landslide of epic proportions. I don’t care what the polls say. Polls lie, because people lie. > > I’d love to be wrong, but there’s nothing I’m reading or hearing anywhere that gives me actual hope that Obama will win. If I foolishly start feeling optimistic, there’s always a thread in IMHO that will bring me back down to earth. Well, just ask yourself this: why did they not lie when the contest was between Obama and Clinton? ---
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/96 "2008-10-09T05:40:49Z")
What would make you change your mind? Or is that impossible until he actually wins? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/97 "2008-10-09T06:15:57Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, just ask yourself this: why did they not lie when the contest was between Obama and Clinton? It could be that it was a choice between two minorities. Voting for Hillary doesn’t sound inherently racist. Though I wonder what was it about Bradley’s opponent that people could not admit they were voting for him? ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/98 "2008-10-09T06:23:39Z")
First of all, as much as I would love to believe all of these polls, [MSNBC](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27084438/) has an interesting article about how these polls might be WAY off base and that the large pollsters are getting nervous. Granted, some of the errors might work in Obama’s favor, but still… Sorry, but I still remember almost throwing up in my car on the drive home from work hearing that Florida went Democratic but then…wait, no…we have decided it is still too close to call…no, yes he won…wait…no, he didn’t win…wait, we still haven’t… Not until I see Obama’s hand on that bible being sworn in in January will I finally crack open that bottle champagne…until then…let’s just say I have been around long enough to see every dirty thieving trick in the book, and won’t be surprised to see new, improved dirty tricks again this year. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/99 "2008-10-09T06:26:07Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > It could be that it was a choice between two minorities. Voting for Hillary doesn’t sound inherently racist. Not quite, you are forgetting that early in the contest other white guys were eliminated, according to **Equipoise** ’s logic Obama should never have made it. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2008, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/100 "2008-10-09T06:38:59Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Obama has basically called McCain out: > > So, does he knock it off with the mudslinging (giving up his last remaining weapon), does he take it direct to the debates (and repel everyone outside his hardcore base), or does he keep doing what he’s doing now (and look like a total chickenshit coward)? Interesting move by Obama. He’s really betting that these attacks won’t work. McCain has to be extremely frustrated right now. In 2000 he ran an honest campaign and lost because of some nasty attacks. Now he runs a nasty campaign and he still can’t come out ahead. He just isn’t smart enough to see the big picture. That one, who just doesn’t understand, is clearly ten times more thoughtful and cautious than McCain. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=6)