# McCain not as forked as the McCain Forked thread, but still forked **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2008, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951 "2008-10-08T03:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1081 "2008-11-03T15:10:41Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > If the other values in that poll are accurate, no one is going to care which way FL goes. That’s the absolute beauty of the way Obama’s been playing it the last four months or so. If the state numbers we’re seeing hold through tomorrow evening, he won’t NEED Florida or Ohio to win. He’s played a strategic game that completely cuts out the need to depend on either of the two “problem states” from 2000 and 2004. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1082 "2008-11-03T15:17:23Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The wife & I just got home from a long-ass day of canvassing in Indianapolis. I guess that every square inch of the northwestern part of the state had already been covered so they were asking people to head on down south. > > An impressive GOTV effort is going on down there. We were sent to a satellite office in the general area we were covering in northern Indy. > > [snip] > > We were primarily going early voting efforts – letting people know that the Indiana early voting offices were still open, where they were and making sure they knew of their regular Nov 4th polling location in case they weren’t early voting. > > [snip] they already had lawyers there to ensure that everyone who was in line by 7:00pm was afforded their chance to cast a ballot as required by law. > > I have no idea if Obama will take Indiana. Like I said, we were in the hardest neighborhoods of Indianapolis and it was about 3:1 in both McCain signs and front door rejections. But if he loses Indiana, it won’t be for a lack of effort from the Obama campaign and its volunteers. If he wins it, I’ll definately know why. > > As a final happy note, I came home to find an e-mail informing me that my Obama election night rally tickets for Grant Park will be e-mailed to me on Monday. 🙂 We went to South Bend on Saturday (they told us everywhere closer than that already had as many volunteers as they could deal with) and had a very similar experience, except we were in a regular middle-class/working-class neighborhood with lots of Obama voters. Very positive overall (from the very few people who were home, anyway) - one lady shut the door on us, and another guy told us “we don’t vote” (though how his wife’s name ended up on a list of Democratic voters, then, I have no idea). They told us that polls in Indiana are only open on Election Day until 6 pm, which sounds crazy. So if you have a job and a commute, you get to vote at 6 am, miss time from work, or not vote at all? That’s why they were telling us to push the early voting for anyone who could do so; the idea was that the more people who voted early, the less likely the polls would be overwhelmed on Election Day. See you in Grant Park tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1083 "2008-11-03T15:21:27Z")
Why do Americans put up with these ridiculous variations in polling times, some states voting early, some not, not enough polling stations, etc.? Surely, voting for your president should follow the same procedures across the entire nation? If it’s ever going to change, I guess it will be under an Obama administration. Reading these threads for the last couple of months, catching the enthusiasm of people like Shayna - guys, when this election is over, y’all ought to get working on voting reform. I think it’s needed desperately. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1084 "2008-11-03T15:27:43Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Why do Americans put up with these ridiculous variations in polling times, some states voting early, some not, not enough polling stations, etc.? Elections are regulated at the local and state level, that’s why there is not a national standard. > [@](#): > > If it’s ever going to change, I guess it will be under an Obama administration. It won’t. It isn’t up to him in any way, and any proposed changes would probably be shot down if one party felt they would be more helpful to the other. It’s idiotic and selfish, but that’s the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1085 "2008-11-03T15:40:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Elections are regulated at the local and state level, that’s why there is not a national standard. > > It won’t. It isn’t up to him in any way, and any proposed changes would probably be shot down if one party felt they would be more helpful to the other. It’s idiotic and selfish, but that’s the way it is. Yup. That’s the gist of it. Even if he did try to shepherd voting reform through the Democratic Congress, we’re NOT going to get a filibuster-proof majority this time around in the Senate. I’m predicting maybe six or seven seats that are currently Republican will fall to the Dems. We’ll just have to pick up the other 3 or 4 or more in 2010. If enough people were interested to call a Constitutional Convention (the other way to get an amendment through), they’d still have to get enough state legislatures to ratify, and there are enough Republican-controlled leges to stymie that. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1086 "2008-11-03T15:46:16Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yup. That’s the gist of it. Even if he did try to shepherd voting reform through the Democratic Congress, we’re NOT going to get a filibuster-proof majority this time around in the Senate. I’m predicting maybe six or seven seats that are currently Republican will fall to the Dems. We’ll just have to pick up the other 3 or 4 or more in 2010. If enough people were interested to call a Constitutional Convention (the other way to get an amendment through), they’d still have to get enough state legislatures to ratify, and there are enough Republican-controlled leges to stymie that. It’s hilarious to me that the idea of more people voting favors one party over the other. Someone from the McCain campaign admitted as much when he supposedly said that Florida Governor Crist lost his state for McCain by extending the early voting hours. Can’t we shame the Republicans into complying with a Constitutional amendment? How could they possibly sell the idea that they’re against too many people voting? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1087 "2008-11-03T15:49:29Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > It’s hilarious to me that the idea of more people voting favors one party over the other. Someone from the McCain campaign admitted as much when he supposedly said that Florida Governor Crist lost his state for McCain by extending the early voting hours. > > Can’t we shame the Republicans into complying with a Constitutional amendment? How could they possibly sell the idea that they’re against too many people voting? I know. It’s basically, “We know that the majority doesn’t like us much, so the only way we can win is by suppressing actual democracy.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1088 "2008-11-03T15:55:25Z")
So, ACORN got to you guys, too, huh? Commissar Soros will be pleased. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1089 "2008-11-03T16:00:56Z")
I had more questions about the election day procedure stuff, so I started a thread on it here: > **[Election Day procedures - time to amend the Constitution?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490939)** > > In the “McCain is forked” thread, a discussion has broken out about Election Day procedures, which are (a) currently controlled at the state/local level, and (b) pretty nonsensical. The fact that there are people out there who would vote but can’t... ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1090 "2008-11-03T16:04:04Z")
Here’s an interesting story from the precinct where I was handling poll-watching duties last week: [At 103, Lithonia Man Votes for the First Time](http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/stories/2008/11/02/firsttime_1103_web.html) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1091 "2008-11-03T16:47:58Z")
I have no idea why missing work should be a consideration. Here, voting day is a f’ing _national holiday_, as it should be. The very idea that someone can’t exercise their franchise, if they choose, because of economic considerations, strikes me as undemocratic. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1092 "2008-11-03T16:48:17Z")
Cool story. Thanks for sharing it, **spoke-**. I think it’s those people who the pollsters are missing. I have this gut feeling that what we’re going to see come tomorrow night will blow most people away it will be so overwhelming. GObama! Yes we can! Sí se puede! On a lighter note, this is one of the reasons that I just adore Barack Obama: > [@](#): > > Sway: I know people have piercings, tattoos. Eric, in particular, is talking about a ban on sagging pants. Do feel like people should be penalized? > > Obama: Here is my attitude: I think people passing a law against people wearing sagging pants is a waste of time. We should be focused on creating jobs, improving our schools, health care, dealing with the war in Iraq, and anybody, any public official, that is worrying about sagging pants probably needs to spend some time focusing on real problems out there. Having said that, **brothers should pull up their pants. You are walking by your mother, your grandmother, your underwear is showing. What’s wrong with that? Come on.** There are some issues that we face, that you don’t have to pass a law, but that doesn’t mean folks can’t have some sense and some respect for other people and, **you know, some people might not want to see your underwear — I’m one of them**. > > [http://thepage.time.com/excerpt-of-obamas-interview-with-mtv/](http://thepage.time.com/excerpt-of-obamas-interview-with-mtv/) Dude can tell it like it is. Can you even begin to imagine John McCain getting away with saying anything like that? HA! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1093 "2008-11-03T16:53:36Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yup. That’s the gist of it. Even if he did try to shepherd voting reform through the Democratic Congress, we’re NOT going to get a filibuster-proof majority this time around in the Senate. I’m predicting maybe six or seven seats that are currently Republican will fall to the Dems. Really? I count T. Udall, M. Udall, Shaheen, Warner\*, Merkley, Begich, and Dole as having strong enough leads to be confident of winning tomorrow, Franken as having a better chance of winning than Coleman, though not by much, Martin as having a good chance at forcing a runoff, which would be slightly more likely to favor him, and Lunsford and Musgrove…well, they might win. We may not get to 60, but we will be damn close. \*The race has tightened a bit, but last I checked Mark Warner had a 20-point lead over Jim Gilmore. I feel like that’s close to a record-setting margin for an open race in which the incumbent party loses in the Senate, although I’m not sure how I’d find out if it is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1094 "2008-11-03T16:58:03Z")
> [@vison](#): > > Why do Americans put up with these ridiculous variations in polling times, some states voting early, some not, not enough polling stations, etc.? Americans think regulating anything at the national level is necessarily evil. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1095 "2008-11-03T16:58:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Really? I count T. Udall, M. Udall, Shaheen, Warner\*, Merkley, Begich, and Dole as having strong enough leads to be confident of winning tomorrow, Franken as having a better chance of winning than Coleman, though not by much, Martin as having a good chance at forcing a runoff, which would be slightly more likely to favor him, and Lunsford and Musgrove…well, they might win. We may not get to 60, but we will be damn close. > > \*The race has tightened a bit, but last I checked Mark Warner had a 20-point lead over Jim Gilmore. I feel like that’s close to a record-setting margin for an open race in which the incumbent party loses in the Senate, although I’m not sure how I’d find out if it is. Okay, 7 or 8. But we NEED 11 to reach a filibusterbuster, because we can’t depend on Joe the Mamzer. And we’re probably not getting 11. I can hope, sure, but Lunsford and Musgrove are A-1 tossups, and my “the glass isn’t half-empty, it’s broken and I’ve cut myself on the shards” pessimism doesn’t hold much hope for them. ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1096 "2008-11-03T17:06:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Really? I count T. Udall, M. Udall, Shaheen, Warner\*, Merkley, Begich, and Dole as having strong enough leads to be confident of winning tomorrow… Did you mean Hagan instead of Dole? Hagan (D) is up in the polls and has increased her lead since the release of the “Godless” commercial. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1097 "2008-11-03T17:08:30Z")
Is this the last day of polling? FWIW another good [day](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/latestpolls/index.html)for Obama and the national polls have been moving slightly in his direction the last few days. Among the national numbers what stands out is an 11 point lead from Gallup. Looking at the range of national polling it’s clear that there is quite a lot at stake for the different pollsters. My sense is that Gallup has worked hard to adapt their polls to the current race by including mobile phones and with their traditional and expanded models. In addition given their large sample size and reputation they are probably the poll I pay most attention to. It’s a pity they haven’t done state-level polling. In the state polls here are Obama’s leads in the Big Three: Pennsylvania 6,8,10,14 Ohio 2,6,6,7 Florida 2,2,2 There is also a Virginia poll with a 6 point Obama lead so it’s hard to see much hope for McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1098 "2008-11-03T17:09:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I have no idea why missing work should be a consideration. Here, voting day is a f’ing _national holiday_, as it should be. The very idea that someone can’t exercise their franchise, if they choose, because of economic considerations, strikes me as undemocratic. Rachel Maddow (man, I’d turn for her. My husband agrees-- he’d like to be around for that) had to be talked down. She was showing lines in, I think, Atlanta. At the time people were waiting up to 8 hours. “If you have to take time off of work for this, it’s basically a poll tax for hourly workers.” ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1099 "2008-11-03T17:12:03Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If the state numbers we’re seeing hold through tomorrow evening, he won’t NEED Florida or Ohio to win. He’s played a strategic game that completely cuts out the need to depend on either of the two “problem states” from 2000 and 2004. It would be sooooo nice if the next 4 years allows us to clean house, where there are no longer “problem states” with “voting irregularities”. I would be perfectly happy to see Ohio and Florida go republican in 2012, if I knew it was done honestly. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951/1100 "2008-11-03T17:15:12Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Really? I count T. Udall, M. Udall, Shaheen, Warner\*, Merkley, Begich, and Dole as having strong enough leads to be confident of winning tomorrow, Franken as having a better chance of winning than Coleman, though not by much, Martin as having a good chance at forcing a runoff, which would be slightly more likely to favor him, and Lunsford and Musgrove…well, they might win. We may not get to 60, but we will be damn close. > > \*The race has tightened a bit, but last I checked Mark Warner had a 20-point lead over Jim Gilmore. I feel like that’s close to a record-setting margin for an open race in which the incumbent party loses in the Senate, although I’m not sure how I’d find out if it is. The latest polls have Hagan way ahead. > **[Pollster](https://www.huffpost.com/news/topic/pollster)** > > Pollster news, charts, and opinion. Hagan 48.2 Dole 43.8 Latest pole by PPP Hagan +7 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-not-as-forked-as-the-mccain-forked-thread-but-still-forked/466951.md?page=56)