# McCain Shovels the Bullshit
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 23, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498 "2008-07-23T16:36:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/1 "2008-07-23T16:36:31Z")
Earlier this week he came out with this absolutely ridiculous ad that straight up blames Barack Obama for high gas prices.
[Pump](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiTpS4MK3D8)
> [@](#):
>
> ANNCR: Gas prices - $4, $5, no end in sight, because some in Washington are still saying no to drilling in America.
>
> No to independence from foreign oil.
>
> Who can you thank for rising prices at the pump?
>
> CHANT: Obama, Obama
>
> ANNCR: One man knows we must now drill more in America and rescue our family budgets.
>
> Don’t hope for more energy, vote for it. McCain.
>
> JOHN MCCAIN: I’m John McCain and I approve this message.
That ad was so bad that GOP sategist Brad Blakeman said on MSNBC, “I’m all for taking one for the team, but I can’t on this one. It’s a dumb ad.”
And then yesterday McCain created the meme that:
> [@](#):
>
> “I had the courage and judgment to say that I would rather lose a political campaign than lose a war. It seems to me that Sen. Obama would rather lose the war in order to win a political campaign.”
An incredibly scurrilous attack, repeated at least four times, that accuses Obama of putting personal ambition above the country. The fact that it is untrue is one thing, but the implications are disguting.
Those who think Rovian politics are gone with John McCain couldn’t be more wrong.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/2 "2008-07-23T16:49:34Z")
I know politicians can say some pretty stupid things, but promising to lower gas prices if elected? Geez, that’s just idiotic. McCain is running a campaign that makes Kerry’s look brilliant. The guy just doesn’t seem to have it in him.
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### Author:  [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/3 "2008-07-23T17:00:12Z")
I’m really enjoying watching Obama campaign. It seems like he’s busy going around, doing positive things (i.e. visiting troops and foreign heads of state), specifically not making an ass of himself (anybody else see him sink that jump shot in Iraq? - take that, bowling night!), and all the while McCain sits on his front porch and complains about him.
Ironically, both politicians seem focused on what Obama is doing.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/4 "2008-07-23T17:06:57Z")
The ad is ham-handed and clumsy.
However, hiding beneath the clumsiness is a legitimate campaign issue: domestic drilling. It seems clear that McCain is much more suportive of domestic drilling than Obama is, and it seems arguable that domestic drilling will lower gas prices. In fact, it’s arguable that the White House’s announcement with respect to drilling caused a drop in oil prices recently.
So I’m not going to condemn the ad across the board. I’d prefer that adds dropped the scary rhetoric and made their points clearly, but that’s never going to happen. So I treat this ad as a simple voice-over: “Senator McCain wants to expand domestic drilling; Senator Obama does not. Expanding domestic drilling will lead to lower oil prices. Vote McCain.”
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### Author:  [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/5 "2008-07-23T17:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
but promising to lower gas prices if elected? Geez, that’s just idiotic.
[/QUOTE]
In the 2000 campaign, with americans smarting from nearly $1/gallon fuel prices, George W. Bush ran a TV ad warning that if they elected his democratic rival they risked being “Gored at the pump” and might end up paying $3/gallon or even more! I recall these ads clearly, but it was pre-YouTube, so I am coming up dry finding the actual ad.
Oh yes, he also promised to regulate CO2 emissions from power plants. Fucker.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/6 "2008-07-23T17:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=Kevbo]
In the 2000 campaign, with americans smarting from nearly $1/gallon fuel prices,
[/QUOTE]
Gas prices were $1 in 2000? I must seriously be misremembering things, because I remember paying well over a dollar back in the early 90s.
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### Author:  [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/7 "2008-07-23T17:26:16Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
The ad is ham-handed and clumsy.
However, hiding beneath the clumsiness is a legitimate campaign issue: domestic drilling.
[/QUOTE]
That’s a very far cry from Obama being responsible for our current situation as the ad insinuates.
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### Author:  [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/8 "2008-07-23T17:29:18Z")
[QUOTE=tdn]
Gas prices were $1 in 2000? I must seriously be misremembering things, because I remember paying well over a dollar back in the early 90s.
[/QUOTE]
It was that cheap. Although I’m not going to spend time looking for details, I know at some point between 1998 and 2000 gas prices hit 80 cents/gal one summer down in Tucson.
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### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/9 "2008-07-23T17:34:16Z")
[QUOTE=tdn]
Gas prices were $1 in 2000? I must seriously be misremembering things, because I remember paying well over a dollar back in the early 90s.
[/QUOTE]
I got my license in 2001, and paid $1.00 or so in Central PA. Maybe $1.10.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/10 "2008-07-23T17:48:25Z")
[QUOTE=tdn]
Gas prices were $1 in 2000? I must seriously be misremembering things, because I remember paying well over a dollar back in the early 90s.
[/QUOTE]
Gas prices have gone up and down over the years, so both could be true.
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### Author:  [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/11 "2008-07-23T17:53:51Z")
Yeah I remember sometime when I was in college, between 1998 and 2001, that I paid 88 cents per gallon. In my Ford Escort, no less!
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### Author:  [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/12 "2008-07-23T17:54:02Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Gas prices have gone up and down over the years, so both could be true.
[/QUOTE]
But when they go up, it’s Obama’s fault, right?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/13 "2008-07-23T17:58:06Z")
[QUOTE=Borborygmi]
But when they go up, it’s Obama’s fault, right?
[/QUOTE]
IIRC, the oil embargo in the 70s was his fault, too.
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### Author:  [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/14 "2008-07-23T17:59:03Z")
I _knew_ it. That bastid!
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/15 "2008-07-23T18:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
However, hiding beneath the clumsiness is a legitimate campaign issue: domestic drilling. It seems clear that McCain is much more suportive of domestic drilling than Obama is, and it seems arguable that domestic drilling will lower gas prices.
[/QUOTE]
Domestic drilling will probably lower gas prices in five years. That’s the sort of timetable you’d be looking at to set up an offshore operation from scratch.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/16 "2008-07-23T18:15:55Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
In fact, it’s arguable that the White House’s announcement with respect to drilling caused a drop in oil prices recently.
[/QUOTE]
[McCain credits Bush for drop in oil price](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080723/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_29)
> [@](#):
>
> Republican John McCain on Wednesday credited the recent $10-a-barrel drop in the price of oil to President Bush’s lifting of a presidential ban on offshore drilling, an action he has been advocating in his presidential campaign.
Seems to me more likely that Bush’s recent moves towards direct talks with the Iranians, appeasement if you will, had an immediate effect on the world tensions which have been driving oil prices.
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### Author:  [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/17 "2008-07-23T18:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=Squink]
[McCain credits Bush for drop in oil price](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080723/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_29)
[/QUOTE]
I was just going to comment on that. Even _the fucking White House_ can’t claim with a straight face that Bush’s purely symbolic action in lifting the executive ban did a damn thing. You know Dana Perino would if she could.
The White House didn’t go that far. Presidential spokeswoman Dana Perino said the price drop also could reflect diminished demand.
“I don’t know if we fully deserve the credit,” Perino said.
“We don’t predict what happens in the market,” she said. “We can’t really tell. Certainly, taking that action would send a signal that at least the executive branch is serious about moving forward and increasing the supply we have in America.”
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/18 "2008-07-23T18:36:58Z")
Well, McCain has himself claimed he doesn’t know economics very well.
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### Author:  [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/19 "2008-07-23T18:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
…and it seems arguable that domestic drilling will lower gas prices.
[/QUOTE]
Why would it?
**First** , my understanding is that the crude pumped domestically will end up on the world market. A drop in the bucket so to speak.
**Second** , does anyone actually believe that the oil companies will drop the price? If they can sell one gallon at $4, why wouldn’t they sell 10 billion more gallons at $4?
**Third** , it’s estimated that these companies _already_ hold leases for a 100 million acres of domestic land. They’re just trying to snatch up more leases offshore before Bush gets out of office. Stop squatting and start drilling, then we’ll talk about new leases.
> [@](#):
>
> In fact, it’s arguable that the White House’s announcement with respect to drilling caused a drop in oil prices recently.
I think it has more to do with Bernanke’s comments on the economy the day before Bush’s announcement.
> [@](#):
>
> So I treat this ad as a simple voice-over: “Senator McCain wants to expand domestic drilling; Senator Obama does not. Expanding domestic drilling will lead to lower oil prices. Vote McCain.”
It’s all about opportunity cost. We waste time and resources drilling a few holes to sustain us another 5 to 10 years, or we can start working on a problem that’s inevitable.
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### Author:  [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)
#### Post date: [July 23, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-shovels-the-bullshit/457498/20 "2008-07-23T19:17:26Z")
[QUOTE=World Eater]
**Second** , does anyone actually believe that the oil companies will drop the price? If they can sell one gallon at $4, why wouldn’t they sell 10 billion more gallons at $4?
[/QUOTE]
Oil companies don’t set the price in that way. It’s an auction. More demand, higher price. More supply, lower price. The oil companies don’t offer their product at a set price and see who is buying.
If domestic drilling increases supply, it will decrease price, though by how much is up for dispute. Of course, prices can still carry on rising if other factors are in play, but _ceteris paribus_ it will reduce the price by an undetermined amount.
I’d say the recent price drop has to do with a hell of a lot of other factors more than the recent changes in policy re drilling, though.
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