# McCain wanted Lieberman or Ridge, met with Palin for the first time last week **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691 "2008-09-02T15:40:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/1 "2008-09-02T15:40:36Z")
So says the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin). > [@](#): > > With time running out — and as Mr. McCain discarded two safer choices, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable — he turned to Ms. Palin. He had his first face-to-face interview with her on Thursday and offered her the job moments later. Advisers to Mr. Pawlenty and another of the finalists on Mr. McCain’s list described an intensive vetting process for those candidates that lasted one to two months. > > “They didn’t seriously consider her until four or five days from the time she was picked, before she was asked, maybe the Thursday or Friday before,” said a Republican close to the campaign. “This was really kind of rushed at the end, because John didn’t get what he wanted. He wanted to do Joe or Ridge.” > > In the final stages, two Republicans familiar with the process said, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis, emerged as a key advocate for Ms. Palin. > > Mr. McCain’s advisers said repeatedly on Monday that Ms. Palin was “thoroughly vetted,” a process that would have included a review of all financial and legal records as well as a criminal background check. A McCain aide said the campaign was well aware of the ethics investigation and had looked into it. > > “It was obviously something that anybody Googling Sarah Palin knew was in the news and there was a very thorough vetting done on that and also on the daughter,” the aide said. > > * * * > > In Alaska, several state leaders and local officials said they knew of no efforts by the McCain campaign to find out more information about Ms. Palin before the announcement of her selection, Although campaigns are typically discreet when they make inquiries into potential running mates, officials in Alaska said Monday they thought it was peculiar that no one in the state had the slightest hint that Ms. Palin might be under consideration. Thoughts? I’m of the opinion that she was not subjected to extensive vetting, and I wonder about the judgment inherent in making such an important decision with such apparent haste. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/2 "2008-09-02T15:45:16Z")
Apparently the McCain camp says they did vet her, although they just dispatched a team of roughly a dozen folks to Alaska to see if there’s anything else they need to know about. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/3 "2008-09-02T15:46:47Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > So says the [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/us/politics/02vetting.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin). > > Thoughts? I’m of the opinion that she was not subjected to extensive vetting, and I wonder about the judgment inherent in making such an important decision with such apparent haste. Wonder no more, McCain used bad judgement. And it will most likely cost him the election. Lawmakers in her own state call this a completely silly decision, stating she’s not ready at all! ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/4 "2008-09-02T15:50:05Z")
The McCain campaign swears she was thoroughly vetted, but the evidence doesn’t bear that out. The local paper in Wasilla said the first person who asked for information about her from their archives was a member of Obama’s staff, and Republicans in Alaska who claim they know everything happening up there had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/5 "2008-09-02T15:53:25Z")
Yeah, reading that was… surprising. He did not meet her for the first time last week, however - I thought they met in February at a governor’s conference or some other event. It made sense that McCain wanted to shake things up. That he did so while apparently not looking very hard at Palin’s background just doesn’t make sense. Even so, so far these are not major scandals. It’s not like she was once given ECT for a mental illness. Of course nobody knows exactly how the public will react to all of this since not much was known about her in the first place. This threatens to become really embarrassing for McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/6 "2008-09-02T15:54:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …and as Mr. McCain discarded two safer choices, Gov. Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and former Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts, as too predictable… Did MCain really discard Pawlenty and Rommey for being _ **too predictable** _? or is that the newspaper asumption? Because it would speak very bad of MCain if his criteria for choosing VP includes whether or not they are a surprise!. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/7 "2008-09-02T17:17:27Z")
> [@](#): > > He did not meet her for the first time last week, however - I thought they met in February at a governor’s conference or some other event. He met **with** her for the first time last week. My understanding is that while he was introduced to her at the NGA conference in January, it was extremely brief and they didn’t actually, y’know, chat about anything of substance. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/8 "2008-09-02T21:32:15Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Did MCain really discard Pawlenty and Rommey for being _ **too predictable** _? > > or is that the newspaper asumption? In context it’s something the paper got from a source or sources. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/9 "2008-09-02T21:38:09Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Did MCain really discard Pawlenty and Rommey for being _ **too predictable** _? > > or is that the newspaper asumption? > > Because it would speak very bad of MCain if his criteria for choosing VP includes whether or not they are a surprise!. This has been the Washington buzz for many weeks, that McCain was looking for a “game changing” VP to shake up the race. I don’t think that’s newspaper assumption, it is pretty much the conventional wisdom here. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/10 "2008-09-02T22:31:49Z")
The New York Times contradicts this article in the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/30/AR2008083002377_pf.html): > [@](#): > > Their first encounter was last February at the National Governors Association meeting in Washington. Sarah Palin was one of several governors who met privately with Sen. John McCain, by then well on his way to capturing the Republican presidential nomination, and her directness and knowledge were impressive. > > Later that day, at a largely social gathering organized by his campaign, McCain spent 15 minutes in private conversation with the first-term Alaska governor. “I remember him talking about her when he came back,” a McCain adviser said. “He said she was an impressive woman. He liked her.” > … > Far from being a last-minute tactical move or a second choice when better known alternatives were eliminated, Palin was very much in McCain’s thinking from the beginning of the selection process, according to McCain’s advisers. The 44-year-old governor made every cut as the first list of candidates assembled last spring was slowly winnowed. The more McCain learned about her, the more attracted he was to her as someone who shared his maverick, anti-establishment instincts. > … > In part to blunt criticism that McCain had pulled a last-minute switch and turned to Palin without all the information he may have needed to make a decision, some of those advisers shared details yesterday about the steps that led to McCain’s choice, mostly on a not-for-attribution basis. > > Six people were involved in the secretive deliberations that led to Palin’s selection: McCain; his wife, Cindy; campaign manager Davis; longtime confidant Mark Salter; senior adviser Steve Schmidt; and key strategist Charlie Black. In addition, Washington lawyer A.B. Culvahouse oversaw the vetting. > … > For all the focus on Pawlenty, Romney and Lieberman, Palin was the leading candidate by the beginning of last week. Davis had spoken with her a number of times. The McCain camp had reviewed everything it could find on her, including videotapes of her public speeches and interviews. “She makes a great speech,” one adviser observed. > > Last Sunday night, McCain talked to Palin by phone from Arizona in what aides described as a somewhat-lengthy call that resulted in McCain asking her to come to Arizona. > > On Wednesday Palin flew to Flagstaff. That night she conferred with Schmidt and Salter. The next morning around 7, the three of them, along with a Palin aide, climbed into an SUV with tinted windows to begin the 45-minute drive to McCain’s retreat in Sedona. > > When they arrived, McCain offered Palin some coffee before taking her to a bend in a creek on the property where there are places to sit and a hawk’s nest looming above. It is one of McCain’s favorite places, and the two talked alone there until they were joined by McCain’s wife, Cindy, who is described as having played a key role throughout the selection process. > > After about an hour, Palin joined her aide on the deck of McCain’s cabin, while the candidate and his wife went for a walk along the creek. When they returned, McCain held one last session with aides Schmidt and Salter. Then he offered Palin the job. The deal was sealed “with a handshake, a pat on the back,” one adviser said. So… He met with her at the Governor’s conference, then had a 15 minute conversation with her there. Then a six-person team dug into the various aspects of her background, watched all the media clips they could find of her, had an FBI check done, etc. McCain then phoned her and had a ‘lengthy’ call which resulted in him asking her to fly out for a further meeting. Then she flew out and spent hours with McCain and his wife. Plus, his campaign advisor spoke to her ‘numerous times’. Considering how many demands are on a candidate’s time, and the number of people that had to be vetted and interviewed, this doesn’t sound like a slapdash, frantic pick to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/11 "2008-09-02T23:31:09Z")
The FBI denies that a check was done, FWIW. Any particular reason you give more credence to the _Post_ article than to the later-in-time article from the _Times_? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/12 "2008-09-02T23:50:02Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > The FBI denies that a check was done, FWIW. > > Any particular reason you give more credence to the _Post_ article than to the later-in-time article from the _Times_? Well, for one thing, the NY Times has been factually inaccurate in a couple of provable ways. One was that they said that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party - which was not true, was not sourced, and which was disproved when Palin produced her voter registration card showing she’s been a registered Republican since 1982. Another was when the article said that revelations about the daughter’s pregnancy brought the quality of the vetting process into question. Except that Palin had volunteered that information to McCain _during_ the vetting process, and the NY Times knew that. Finally, I simply don’t trust the reporting of the New York Times any more. They wear their partisanship on their sleeve. This is the newspaper that never reported Al Gore Junior’s arrest for driving while high on pot, going 100 mph on his way to the Democratic convention in 2000, because they felt it wasn’t newsworthy. The same newspaper that did everything it could to avoid printing the story about John Edwards affair, and has refused to investigate deeply into the William Ayers/Rezko connections on Obama’s side - but which has THREE first-page stories in Tuesday’s edition regarding the pregnancy of Sarah Palin’s daughter. The NY Times is firmly in the tank for Barack Obama, and everyone knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2008, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/13 "2008-09-02T23:59:42Z")
Okey doke. I’m assuming you’re also discounting the Times’s Republican sources? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/14 "2008-09-03T00:09:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Well, for one thing, the NY Times has been factually inaccurate in a couple of provable ways. One was that they said that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party - which was not true, was not sourced, and which was disproved when Palin produced her voter registration card showing she’s been a registered Republican since 1982. I don’t think there is necessarily any contradiction in the two. Palin easily could have been registered Republican, but been involved enough with the AIP to be considered a member. Besides, it’s difficult to see a NYT agenda when the clerk of the party is the one that said she was a member, and several other news organizations have reported it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/15 "2008-09-03T00:24:23Z")
Well, there’s also how IIRC, that there’s no love lost between Palin and a very large part of the Alaska GOP establishment machine, so it’s credible that Alaska Republicans would be a source for unflattering info AND at the same time that it not be the most reliable unflattering info. Politically, it is not a bad idea to seek to create a “mirror ticket” from that of the Dems. It’s in the details of execution that such moves can founder. Looks to me like Palin was a “new face” that the 'Pubs woudl have been thinking of for the future, and Mac decided to move her turn up ahead. And if McCain really thought taking up Lieberman as VP was the most desirable, viable option, THAT, and not settling on Palin, makes me question his judgment more. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/16 "2008-09-03T00:35:33Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Well, for one thing, the NY Times has been factually inaccurate in a couple of provable ways. One was that they said that Palin was a member of the Alaska Independence Party - which was not true, was not sourced, and which was disproved when Palin produced her voter registration card showing she’s been a registered Republican since 1982. Another was when the article said that revelations about the daughter’s pregnancy brought the quality of the vetting process into question. Except that Palin had volunteered that information to McCain _during_ the vetting process, and the NY Times knew that… Nice that she has a voter registration card but the [AIP](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html) claims her as one of theirs. > [@](#): > > Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time. Now I don’t know about Alaskan law (and I doubt you do either) - but I can certainly imagine someone officially registering as one thing while joining the membership list of another organization. As **treis** said. I’d be curious to hear what it was she said to the AIP conference. As to what McCain knew and when he knew it, well last I heard he wouldn’t say exactly when he found out. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/17 "2008-09-03T02:45:32Z")
> [@](#): > > One Republican strategist with close ties to the campaign described the candidate’s closest supporters as “keeping their fingers crossed” in hopes that additional information does not force McCain to revisit the decision. According to this Republican, who would discuss internal campaign strategizing only on condition of anonymity, the McCain team used little more than a Google Internet search as part of a rushed effort to review Palin’s potential pitfalls. Just over a week ago, Palin was not on McCain’s short list of potential running mates, the Republican said. -[Peter Wallsten, LA Times](http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-palinassess2-2008sep02,0,6755054,full.story) Maybe **all** the _Times_ papers are lying. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/18 "2008-09-03T02:52:23Z")
> [@Gadarene](#): > > I’m of the opinion that she was not subjected to extensive vetting . . . [Oh, yes, she was.](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/352178/ultra_secretive_right_wing_group_met_in_minn_to_vet_palin) :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/19 "2008-09-03T02:58:04Z")
John McCain clinched the Repub. nomination in February. And yet this selection looks more and more like a last-second panic move on his part, after the Dems had such a great convention. Nice leadership qualities, Mac. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2008, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691/20 "2008-09-03T02:58:37Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I don’t think there is necessarily any contradiction in the two. Palin easily could have been registered Republican, but been involved enough with the AIP to be considered a member. Besides, it’s difficult to see a NYT agenda when the clerk of the party is the one that said she was a member, and several other news organizations have reported it. Oh well, if the clerk of a fringe party says the governor was a member, it MUST be true. They wouldn’t happen to have any, you know, evidence, would they? [Here’s what McCain’s camp says about the vetting process](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=N2EyM2Q2NjYxZmUxMzgxNTYwMjAwZDk3MmE2NGNmNjY=) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wanted-lieberman-or-ridge-met-with-palin-for-the-first-time-last-week/461691.md?page=2)