# McCain wins in 08; Obama or Hillary (or other) in 2012? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704 "2008-08-20T18:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/41 "2008-08-21T16:23:53Z")
No sense in hijacking the thread in directions already well trodden. “That’s pretty much a proven fact” is in the eyes of the beholder and the point is debatable…and generally just breaks down along partisan lines (though I don’t consider myself a Republican partisan and I remain unconvinced despite uncountable threads on this topic). Should just stick to the question at hand. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/42 "2008-08-21T16:29:15Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I’ll take it. No problem…there are so many reasons [too many to list] that this is a democratic year and I would absolutely take that bet… Aside from that - to the OP - Obama might if it was a close race, McCain ran and re-ran. Clinton - nope her ship left the harbor. And I’m not so sure she is going to pull a Ted Kennedy either. I think she is going to do something that will make a lot more money. [/QUOTE] OK, if you’re giving 5 to 1, I’ll put up $100 for McCain. That’s $100 to you if Obama wins; $500 to me if McCain wins. And by “wins” – I mean “Is inaugurated as President.” Don’t really care to hear about how Diebold stole the election or anything. We have a bet? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/43 "2008-08-21T16:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] You must be the only person in the continental US who never heard the expression “Sore-Loserman”. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Seriously, that’s all you got? A bumper sticker? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/44 "2008-08-21T17:22:15Z")
No, but it’s all I’m going to bother with. Don’t pretend not to know what I am talking about and then get shirty when you’re dismissed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/45 "2008-08-21T17:33:09Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] No, but it’s all I’m going to bother with. Don’t pretend not to know what I am talking about and then get shirty when you’re dismissed. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] No, you plant the idea in this thread that Obama will bitch, whine, piss and moan about voter fraud, as if there’s some precedent to that-- either from other Democratic candidates or Obama himself. Show me where you get that from. And try to avoid the Fox News crawl/Bumper Sticker one-liner nicknames. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/46 "2008-08-21T20:07:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] OK, if you’re giving 5 to 1, I’ll put up $100 for McCain. That’s $100 to you if Obama wins; $500 to me if McCain wins. And by “wins” – I mean “Is inaugurated as President.” Don’t really care to hear about how Diebold stole the election or anything. We have a bet? [/QUOTE] Ok. Do you like Roulette **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/47 "2008-08-21T20:15:47Z")
Damn, I always miss out when these betting threads get going. I’ll take 5-to-1 as well if you’re offering. $20 for $100? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/48 "2008-08-21T20:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] No, but it’s all I’m going to bother with. Don’t pretend not to know what I am talking about and then get shirty when you’re dismissed. [/QUOTE] There’s absolutely no doubt that there were myriads of leftie/liberal/Democratic voters and politicians who raised a ruckus in contesting the election results (and alleging varieties of crimes and conspiracies) of the last two presidential cycles. I won’t dispute that one bit. But you claimed Gore and Kerry not just disputed the results (as was their legal right at the time) but bitched/whined/et al about fraud. That’s a horse of a different color and it’s certainly fair to ask for a cite. Put up or shut up. * * * Personally, I think Obama will win, but if he doesn’t, he won’t run again right away. He’ll stay in the Senate for a while and actually gain the type of experience the Doubters are claiming he should have more of. I can totally see him becoming an elder statesman and eventually running again, but many years down the road–How about this for an “I told you so” slogan: “Hindsight is 2020. Obama for President”. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/49 "2008-08-21T20:42:13Z")
This is how it always happens - every one piles on and then suddenly, Phil’s out 10 grand in 20 minutes. 😃 However, with this particular bet, I’d still bet the way I am: Obama - but not in a squeeker. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/50 "2008-08-21T23:10:28Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] But after reading this well sourced article (208 citations), [/QUOTE] To be fair, a lot of citations does not “well sourced” make, at least not alone. As Al Franken pointed out in one of his books, an Ann Coulter tome he looked at had HUNDREDS of footnotes and citations. Many of the major ones either did not back up what she was saying, or just served to obfuscate. I don’t think you can just see a citation and assume that it says what the author says it does, or that it backs up the author’s point, no matter who it comes from. But I am interested in hearing why **Shodan** thinks the actions you talked about on Blackwell’s part were justified. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2008, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704/51 "2008-08-21T23:46:14Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] You must be the only person in the continental US who never heard the expression “Sore-Loserman”. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] I’ve seen plenty of bumper stickers that claim Bush stole the election in 2000. I never realized those bumper stickers were themselves _proof_ that he stole the election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccain-wins-in-08-obama-or-hillary-or-other-in-2012/460704.md?page=2)