# McCainites for lower taxes: do you make over 250G? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 10, 2008, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926 "2008-09-10T12:00:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/41 "2008-09-13T09:29:31Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Damn right, and proud of it. > > /s/ Greedy SOB Thanks for the honesty. How much do you think Obama will cost you? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/42 "2008-09-13T13:29:45Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The silence is persuading me that what we’re seeing here is simple greed, or in the case of people not yet making a quarter million per annum, either naive optimism gone wild or a very loose grasp on reality. If I’d gotten a few honest estimates (i.e., “I figure it would cost me $ 4,000 next year to have Obama elected,” ) then we would know the price of patriotism, integrity, country first, etc. Another possibility is that it is pretty clear that this was just a gotcha. If you are voting for Obama, how much do you expect to get in tax cuts? If we get some answers there, then we know the price of patriotism, integrity, etc. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/43 "2008-09-13T14:35:34Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/44 "2008-09-13T15:47:00Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Thanks for the honesty. Yeah sure. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > How much do you think Obama will cost you? More than will McCain, and that’s as far as the inquiry needs to go for me. I don’t feel like Obama is offering something that I would be willing to pay for, so there’s no cost-benefit analysis to perform. Despite recent evidence to the contrary, I still think the Republicans better share my vision of government (at least fiscally) than do the Democrats, and I’m willing to put up with some crazy (i.e., the religious right, etc.) to get it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/45 "2008-09-13T16:48:18Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > The silence is persuading me that what we’re seeing here is simple greed I’m poor enough that I get almost 100% of my federal income taxes back as a refund. Not only that, I also get a couple of thousand dollars of _somebody else’s_ income taxes in the form of the [earned income credit](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_income_credit). Yeah, I guess my greed is showing, because I recognize that this is unfair. You can be against higher taxes for the rich on principal. You don’t have to be a fat cat robber baron greedily guarding your assets. And politicians raise taxes when convenient; that’s what they do. I see no reason to believe that republicans are going to tax people less. If they do, they won’t cut spending, so that we’ll all be that much poorer via inflation as opposed to taxes. That’s why I’m voting for Obama and historically vote democrat – other issues are more important and actually have a chance of being fixed. ---
**Author:** ![hopesperson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@hopesperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hopesperson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/46 "2008-09-13T16:59:44Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > The silence is persuading me that what we’re seeing here is simple greed, or in the case of people not yet making a quarter million per annum, either naive optimism gone wild or a very loose grasp on reality. If I’d gotten a few honest estimates (i.e., “I figure it would cost me $ 4,000 next year to have Obama elected,” ) then we would know the price of patriotism, integrity, country first, etc. Perhaps the silence is persuading you that way because that’s the way you set out to be persuaded. There are plenty who believe, in principal, that people should be taxed as little as possible, no matter what their income level. And not all people who hold this belief are either rich or delusional, as your false dichotomy would suggest. I’m currently planning to vote for Obama in November, but it will be despite any “soak the rich” tax plan he may offer, not because of it. I don’t make $250k. Maybe I will someday, maybe I won’t. But I can assure you that I am neither naively optimistic nor unacquainted with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/47 "2008-09-13T17:09:34Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > And politicians raise taxes when convenient; that’s what they do. I see no reason to believe that republicans are going to tax people less. If they do, they won’t cut spending, so that we’ll all be that much poorer via inflation as opposed to taxes. That’s why I’m voting for Obama and historically vote democrat – other issues are more important and actually have a chance of being fixed. This. Taxation remains essentially the same regardless of the party in power. The difference is that the Democrats spend it on expanding mediocre welfare programs while the Republicans spend it on making an already dominant military more dominant. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/48 "2008-09-13T17:11:04Z")
Taxes are going north regardless of who wins. Someone has to pay the $10 billion monthly tab for Operation WMD, and apparently it isn’t going to be Iraq. $10 billion/month for the war machine is okay, but $10 billion for health care isn’t ? That confuses me. ---
**Author:** ![Campion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@Campion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Campion)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/49 "2008-09-13T20:28:56Z")
> [@hopesperson](#): > > Perhaps the silence is persuading you that way because that’s the way you set out to be persuaded. > > There are plenty who believe, in principal, that people should be taxed as little as possible, no matter what their income level. And not all people who hold this belief are either rich or delusional, as your false dichotomy would suggest. This. I project that an Obama presidency will increase my taxes (taxes overall, not just income, but payroll as well) in the neighborhood of an additional 5-15% of my income. Currently, approximately a third of my income goes to taxes or payroll deductions in one form or another, so an Obama presidency would move me closer to the 40-50% range. A McCain presidency, however, would keep me about where I’m at, or only increase my taxes minimally. Is it irrational of me to consider tax policy when evaluating a presidential candidate? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/50 "2008-09-13T21:02:17Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Also…I’m curious as to what those over $250K people do…because I’ve been thinking about a career change. College Grad (DePaul) Wife and I own a small IT/Management Consulting Company. Wife also works FT as a Project Manager at Wells Fargo Home Mortgage. We gross more than that magic $250k with a large portion of our take home inome being paid to us as dividends from our S-corp. I employ 4-5 people who each earn low 6 figure salaries. The consulting market here has never taken a hit and we are usually dying to find people to fill vacancies. What do you do? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/51 "2008-09-13T21:08:31Z")
> [@Campion](#): > > This. I project that an Obama presidency will increase my taxes (taxes overall, not just income, but payroll as well) in the neighborhood of an additional 5-15% of my income. Currently, approximately a third of my income goes to taxes or payroll deductions in one form or another, so an Obama presidency would move me closer to the 40-50% range. A McCain presidency, however, would keep me about where I’m at, or only increase my taxes minimally. > > Is it irrational of me to consider tax policy when evaluating a presidential candidate? It’s not a disincentive to be rich, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/52 "2008-09-13T21:09:50Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > Have you seen [this link from CNN?](http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm) A bit further down, the article says: > [@](#): > > The center will also incorporate the tax elements of McCain’s and Obama’s health care proposals when they update their findings. That implies that the link as given doesn’t include the McCain plan to [include employer-based health benefits as taxable income](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/us/politics/01mccain.html). ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/53 "2008-09-14T12:42:42Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Do you think you should pay anything in taxes on your dividend income? No. As a shareholder, I already paid the tax on that income when the corporation paid its taxes. Why should I have to pay AGAIN? ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/54 "2008-09-14T14:06:46Z")
According to [this chart](http://www.stefanhayden.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama_mccain_taxcut.gif) Obama does not want to raise taxes on people making 250K/per year - taxes will be very slightly less. The group he wants to raise taxes on is those making more than 603K. 250K a year is not rich, in my opinion…an upper-middle-class household with two working professionals can make that easily. Someone making $50,000 a MONTH is rich. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/55 "2008-09-14T14:39:35Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > That implies that the link as given doesn’t include the McCain plan to [include employer-based health benefits as taxable income](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/01/us/politics/01mccain.html). That son of a bitch! I never heard about that- and it would fuck me over bigtime. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/56 "2008-09-14T15:25:21Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > It’s not a disincentive to be rich, is it? Are you saying that taxes are only a bad thing when they ge so high that they become a disincentive to be rich? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/57 "2008-09-14T15:29:46Z")
> [@A\_shameful\_cracka](#): > > According to [this chart](http://www.stefanhayden.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/obama_mccain_taxcut.gif) Obama does not want to raise taxes on people making 250K/per year - taxes will be very slightly less. The group he wants to raise taxes on is those making more than 603K. > > 250K a year is not rich, in my opinion…an upper-middle-class household with two working professionals can make that easily. Someone making $50,000 a MONTH is rich. Three points: 1. I think the chart shows household income and not individual income. 2. The chart does not show either candidate’s proposed changes in employment taxes (which are AFAIK McCain: none, and Obama: jack 'em up). 3. It’s hard to determine exactly what Obama will do because he keeps changing what he’s saying he’s going to do re: taxes (the WSJ refers to Obama’s latest plan as Obama tax 3.0). This is another reason why it’s sufficient to favor McCain over Obama on general policy grounds instead of trying to make a determination based on this chart or one of the numerous calculators. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/58 "2008-09-14T16:45:00Z")
My husband makes \> $400,000 annually and our accountant projected that our taxes would go up about 7200/year under Obama’s Administration. So his 4 year presidency would cost us approximately $29,000. THAT is why we used to support McCain…our pocketbook made the decision for us. BTW we live in southern California where the cost of living is extremely high. However, since McCain chose that kook, Palin as a running mate, we decided that it will be worth the 29 grand just to keep them out of office. So in spite of the tax hike, we’ll be voting for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/59 "2008-09-14T16:53:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But it acknowledges that the Republicans are taking less of it from me. The only reason they can do so is by increasing the deficit, growing the national debt, and passing the burden on to successive generations. You should not be so proud of your Dine ‘N’ Dash party. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2008, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926/60 "2008-09-14T17:41:07Z")
With the economy in the state it’s in, we can count on taxes going up in the next few years - it’s pretty much inevitable. At least Obama is being honest in that he’s going to raise the taxes, and that he’s going to raise the taxes on people who are not suffering economically. McCain is promising to lower taxes for everyone, but we’ve heard Republican candidates in the past promise not to raise taxes and then go back on their word. McCain has also promised to cut taxes more for the richest than for the poorer, so when the taxes are inevitably raised, I’m afraid he’s going to raise them more for the people he’s already shown a lack of concern for when it comes to tax rates. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccainites-for-lower-taxes-do-you-make-over-250g/462926.md?page=4)