# McCain's Mental State **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410 "2008-09-20T06:21:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/41 "2008-09-21T05:50:42Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > I don’t think it’s any medical condition, be it age, illness, or fatigue, that is causing his misstatements. I think the man is floundering because he is so desperate. This is his absolute last shot at the presidency; he can’t tell himself that he’ll run again in four years. And he’s wanted this very badly for a long time - probably for fifteen, twenty years. He’s screwing up because he’s panicked, and he’s panicked because he wants this so damned much. No crisis that happened to the country could panic him the way this campaign is, and I’m assuming he would actually handle the stress of the office better than this. On the other hand, I have the feeling he won’t be allowed to run much of anything. If McCain is elected, I imagine it will be largely the same people in charge as now, except for Cheney. I give him more credit than that. Yes he does want the Presidency, but I doubt that he would be less concerned about a crisis affecting the lives of thousands or millions of us than that. I’m sure that you are right that the stress of the campaign is making things worse, but I don’t think the Presidency is any vacation, unless you are as clueless as our current one. McCain understands, or used to understand, what is at stake far more. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/42 "2008-09-21T05:53:19Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > The party matters more than the person, so I’m not too bothered by McCain acting old. At least he and his party don’t believe that the government exists to redistribute wealth from the productive to the unproductive. I’ll take a little early-stage Alzheimer’s over a three-quarters marxist. I’m sure glad Mr. Gorbachev was less of a party fanatic than you are. It appears you hate America so much that you would rather have it led by someone mentally incompetent than a Democrat. I’m not saying McCain is, (I’m no doctor) but you don’t seem to care. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/43 "2008-09-21T05:55:35Z")
You people have scared the crap out of me. I was expecting at least some dispute over my father-in-law’s observation, but all I got was confirmation of it. :eek: \*\* 20. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/44 "2008-09-21T06:15:39Z")
So, a three quarters Marxist demands that 75% of the means of production belongs to the workers? The revolutionary cadres seek to impose, by violent means, the voting predominance of the proletariat? “Most of the opiate of the people is religion, the other 25% is opiates.” “The larger part of the East is Red, with some yellow, and a bit of blue…” ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/45 "2008-09-21T06:39:01Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I give him more credit than that. Yes he does want the Presidency, but I doubt that he would be less concerned about a crisis affecting the lives of thousands or millions of us than that. I’m sure that you are right that the stress of the campaign is making things worse, but I don’t think the Presidency is any vacation, unless you are as clueless as our current one. McCain understands, or used to understand, what is at stake far more. The difference would be that he wouldn’t feel as pressured to act right NOW, or he’d lose all chance of the thing he’s wanted most over the past twenty years, give or take a few. He’d have access to a huge array of expert advisors, and it would be very unlikely for him to even be _permitted_ to act unilaterally in a given situation. I’m fairly sure that a White House staff can isolate a president to the point of near total lack of power if they want to enough and are united in their attempt. I don’t at all think he’d be less concerned, but I think he would be calmer and less panicked about it. Not as much as Obama, because Obama is by nature a very unflappable sort of guy, but better than he is right now. There’s no question in my mind that McCain is a patriot by his own lights, or that he wouldn’t take his responsibilities seriously, unlike the man currently in place, who is decidedly hands-off in his management style (not necessarily a bad thing - Reagan was an enormously effective hands-off president, and I always felt it was a pity he wasn’t on our side). McCain, if elected, would by nature fall somewhere in between, whereas Obama’s greatest danger would be becoming too involved in policy detail, because he appears to love it as well as understanding it. If elected, I suspect Obama will visually age in office. Then again, he is unflappable, so maybe he’ll just take it all in stride. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/46 "2008-09-21T12:09:06Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > If elected, I suspect Obama will visually age in office. I can’t think of a president that _hasn’t_ aged in office, including Ford, who only served part of a term. The job does sort of suck the life out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/47 "2008-09-21T12:35:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Because you could throw a couple of female pages/prostitutes at Strom and get him to shut up. Undoubtedly true. I have a female friend who claims that when she was younger (and she was in her late 20s when she made this claim, so we’re talking very young in relation to Thurmond) that Thurmond made a pass at her when they met (she is blond and pretty, so, I don’t exactly BLAME Thurmond). Of course, for you this is second-hand stuff, but to me it is very credible. I’ve also heard stories from a different female freind about … Max Cleland. Now, that’s being a man! ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/48 "2008-09-22T07:49:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Honey, this week the nation, led by none other than that well-known lead com simp George W. Bush, went further toward communism than anything Obama ever devised in his entire life. Gee, I think that in communism, the money is supposed to go **to** the people – not **away** from the people. Do you really think that Leftists support corporate greed? Did you know that the executives at the banks that we are keeping open can _still_ use the taxpayer’s money to get their usual _sweet_ Christmas bonuses? Meanwhile, we had a school in Tennessee that couldn’t afford to open on time. And another where they asked the children to bring their on toliet paper from home. No Bank Executive Left Behind ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/49 "2008-09-22T17:07:42Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Gee, I think that in communism, the money is supposed to go **to** the people – not **away** from the people. > > Do you really think that Leftists support corporate greed? Did you know that the executives at the banks that we are keeping open can _still_ use the taxpayer’s money to get their usual _sweet_ Christmas bonuses? > > Meanwhile, we had a school in Tennessee that couldn’t afford to open on time. And another where they asked the children to bring their on toliet paper from home. > > No Bank Executive Left Behind In communism, The People[sup]TM[/sup] are represented by The State[sup]TM[/sup]. The state is now the proud owner of a shiny new AIG. Therefore the people are now the proud owner of a shiny new AIG. Aren’t you happy? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/50 "2008-09-22T19:30:44Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > know. > > This is not something that should be used for political advantage… Why not? Shouldn’t the American people be informed that the Republican nominee is on the verge or senility, if in fact it is true? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/51 "2008-09-22T19:36:41Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > So Obama has a +1 to +8 lead, depending whether you go with the wacky Rasmussen weighting, or the wacky R2000 one. Gallup is +6. Poll of polls: [http://http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama\_vs\_mccain/](http://http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/) Obama 202, McCain 189, Toss ups 147. Edit: Electoral College votes, that is… ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/52 "2008-09-22T19:47:18Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why not? Shouldn’t the American people be informed that the Republican nominee is on the verge or senility, if in fact it is true? That’s the debate the OP is asking for. I think if it were true, definitely it should be out in the open. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter all that enormously. The president is largely a figurehead for a large committee, unless the president himself is a very, very strong personality with very, very strong policy ideas who wants to be active in a hands-on kind of way. McCain has given no sign of being that kind of guy. Obama is that kind of guy. Neither style is better than the other. We’ve had very effective presidents of both styles. I have a personal preference for the hands-on style myself, but it’s entirely personal. The biggest danger of having a truly senile president would be in foreign relations; he might well do something embarassing in meeting a foreign head of state or embassador. Now we could fix that by privately admitting the truth or making something up, but it would definitely be a loss of face. But Palin could step in for that perfectly adequately; she is sufficiently well housebroken for that, and there are no questions as to her senility. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/53 "2008-09-22T20:03:05Z")
> [@Oy](#): > > That’s the debate the OP is asking for. > > I think if it were true, definitely it should be out in the open. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter all that enormously. The president is largely a figurehead for a large committee, unless the president himself is a very, very strong personality with very, very strong policy ideas who wants to be active in a hands-on kind of way. McCain has given no sign of being that kind of guy. Obama is that kind of guy. Neither style is better than the other. We’ve had very effective presidents of both styles. I have a personal preference for the hands-on style myself, but it’s entirely personal. > > The biggest danger of having a truly senile president would be in foreign relations; he might well do something embarassing in meeting a foreign head of state or embassador. Now we could fix that by privately admitting the truth or making something up, but it would definitely be a loss of face. But Palin could step in for that perfectly adequately; she is sufficiently well housebroken for that, and there are no questions as to her senility. By political advantage I meant that Obama putting out an ad implying McCain is senile would surely backfire. However this is something we should find out. I disagree about the president being a figurehead. Who chooses the committee, after all, but the president. There have been cases, like Harding, where the president was selected by power brokers, but this isn’t one of them. Who is the power behind the throne here? We do have people telling McCain how to campaign, but that is different from policy. A president descending into senility would be a figurehead, which scares me quite a bit. And no doubt Palin would try to take over, given her popularity. We’d be in the middle of an Alan Drury novel. I don’t know of the old McCain was a hands-on guy, but he did have policy ideas which were original. We could hope that this McCain would re-emerge if he won, but if he is confused all the time, it won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410/54 "2008-09-22T20:33:46Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > By political advantage I meant that Obama putting out an ad implying McCain is senile would surely backfire. However this is something we should find out. > > I disagree about the president being a figurehead. Who chooses the committee, after all, but the president. There have been cases, like Harding, where the president was selected by power brokers, but this isn’t one of them. Who is the power behind the throne here? We do have people telling McCain how to campaign, but that is different from policy. > > A president descending into senility would be a figurehead, which scares me quite a bit. And no doubt Palin would try to take over, given her popularity. We’d be in the middle of an Alan Drury novel. > > I don’t know of the old McCain was a hands-on guy, but he did have policy ideas which were original. We could hope that this McCain would re-emerge if he won, but if he is confused all the time, it won’t happen. What does the president do all day? He meets with people. I’d guess that more than half of these meeting have nothing whatsoever to do with policy. A well behaved ten year old, say Obama’s elder daughter, could do them (actually, she’d be great at them!). Half of the remaining time, he’s meeting with experts and his own advisors are with him, listening to the experts. If he doesn’t pay attention, it doesn’t matter that much because they’re getting it all. In general, the president’s job is overarching policy, not detail. Both candidates have largely done this already. They will, of course, have to respond to events as they unfold, and this is especially true with foreign relations and the military, which are the particular concern of the president. They also have to choose between competing ideas among their advisors. But in all cases, if the president doesn’t do it, it will still get done. The tenor has been set before the election happens, and the people running the campaign are going to be the same people who are the advisors in the White House. In McCain’s case, I doubt he’s all that happy about it. But he wanted to be president badly enough to sell his soul, probably thinking he could back out after the election. I don’t think he’s going to find it so easy. Karl Rove’s people will still control the White House if McCain is elected, IMHO. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-mental-state/464410.md?page=2)