# McCain's "Surge at Home" Idiocy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2008, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681 "2008-08-03T05:43:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/81 "2008-08-07T03:21:17Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Yes, of course. Are you implying that the crime situation in America today is in any way analogous to that of the Little Rock Nine? [/QUOTE] I worked with a guy who was in that class from Central High. The 101 guys would buy them whiskey and smokes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/82 "2008-08-07T03:33:06Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] [McCain says U.S. needs “economic surge.”](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/06/campaign.wrap/index.html) You thought you were kidding, didn’t you? [/QUOTE] Well, a “surge on” sounds better than a “war on.” McCain: “Well, we need off-shore drilling.” Obama: “I’m against but I’m also going to be for it when we develop a plan.” Translation: McCain tells the truth, Obama is soooo kewt & cuddly! Also full of shit. How many times do we have to hear our president is going to wait for “a plan?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/83 "2008-08-07T04:10:17Z")
Its a pretty ok bit of psychic _jiu-jitsu_. He is already married to the somewhat weak notion that the “surge” is the miracle, the _deus ex McCaina_, that has transformed Iraq from turd-infested fever swamp to warm and cuddly American ally. Its a pretty weak case, over all, but rather than defend it, he simply assumes that he need not, that the “surge” is so patently wonderful, he can apply it as a metaphor for other, entirely unrelated, issues. Rather than argue that the "surge’ is crunchy goodness, he simply pretends that the argument has already been settled, that everyone agrees that the “surge” was the greatest idea evah! ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/84 "2008-08-07T04:23:29Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] McCain: “Well, we need off-shore drilling.” Obama: “I’m against but I’m also going to be for it when we develop a plan.” Translation: McCain tells the truth, Obama is soooo kewt & cuddly! Also full of shit. [/QUOTE] Obama would support it as a part of a compromise. I realize it’s a concept that hasn’t gotten much exposure in the past 8 years, so it’s understandable when people don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/85 "2008-08-07T04:27:15Z")
You use what works; drive it 'till it dies. No sense rewriting the works of Shakespeare when your monkey’s already banged them out for you. We don’t want the cloud of smoke to be a mushroom gun. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/86 "2008-08-07T04:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=LilShieste] Obama would support it as a part of a compromise. [/QUOTE] And McCain is just going to nuke baby harp seals until the ocean gives up its oil? McCain is all about compromise and exploring alternative energy and conserving, etc. He’s man enough to say we’re going to need more oil, while we explore our other options. Obama is brave enough to wiffle waffle and promise to form a committee to explore the issue. We all know how effective that turns out to be. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/87 "2008-08-07T14:35:46Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] How many times do we have to hear our president is going to wait for “a plan?” [/QUOTE] Yeah, because acting without waiting for a plan first goes so bloody well. (See “Iraq, occupation of”) ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/88 "2008-08-07T21:24:44Z")
[QUOTE=42fish] Yeah, because acting without waiting for a plan first goes so bloody well. (See “Iraq, occupation of”) [/QUOTE] Yeah, I knew that would be the first example brought up. We so agree on that one. But ineffectual politicians are known for appointing committees rather that doing anything of consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/89 "2008-08-08T02:36:39Z")
McCain has all the answers: Fatalities rising in Afghanistan. [Give it a surge!](http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16208.html) If it worked in Iraq, it has to work in Afghanistan too! > [@John McCain](#): > > It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. Ok, what about [energy policy](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/25/mccain-aide-offshore-dril_n_114991.html)? > [@](#): > > An aide to John McCain synthesized the Senator’s two favorite topics into one political thesis today: his support for off-shore drilling and his policy proposals on Iraq. > > “This is **the domestic policy equivalent of the surge** ,” said Nancy Pfotenhauer, “you have Sen. McCain looking at a situation, seeing the Congress not willing to solve a problem and calling for a change of policy… Then you have Sen. Obama who has an ironclad unwillingness because he won’t risk alienating his political base.” Wait, I thought Obama was a flip-flopper because he was willing to _compromise_ on the issue of oil drilling in return for concessions on energy conservation. Or maybe Obama is just a serious legislator. But what should we do about [the economy](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/06/campaign.wrap/index.html)? > [@John McCain](#): > > What we need today is an **economic surge**. The surge has succeeded in Iraq militarily – now we need an **economic surge** to keep jobs here at home and create new ones. Was the surge a carefully considered military strategy or has McCain discovered an all purpose policy band-aid, one so effective you don’t need to understand the underlying issues? C’mon Sam: if the surge is good for Iraq, Afghanistan, energy policy and the economy, it just _has_ to be great for our domestic criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/90 "2008-08-08T03:14:15Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] if the surge is good for Iraq, Afghanistan, energy policy and the economy, it just _has_ to be great for our domestic criminals. [/QUOTE] Yep, America _needs_ surgery! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/91 "2008-08-08T05:41:05Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] C’mon Sam: if the surge is good for Iraq, Afghanistan, energy policy and the economy, it just _has_ to be great for our domestic criminals. [/QUOTE] It’s a breath mint _and_ a toilet bowl cleanser! ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/92 "2008-08-08T06:12:18Z")
This is beautiful, and classic politics, on both sides. The rabid anti-war leftists(and Obama) were all so vehemently against the surge. Then it worked, or at least brought the situation in Iraq to the point where a descent resolution was in sight. Now Obama and the left are falling all over themselves to co-opt what the right has been saying all along, Obama’s “16 months” meme, which he’s been pushing for several years, has finally caught up the right’s “We stand down as they stand up” mantra. Meanwhile, against all expectation, the right has been proved (or at least vindicated to some degree) correct in Iraq, and they are seeking to build on that, applying the “surge” terminology to other programs they favor. They haven’t actually been doing it as much as mocking left wing bloggers and journalists would like to have you believe, and many of those folks have forgotten that the word “surge” is a perfectly cromulent word, when someone mentions an “economic surge” they are not necessarily using the word as a reference to Iraq but in it’s proper, dictionary meaning, but the connection IS there sometimes. The right seeks to expand the connection to absurdity, and the left desperately tries to deny the fact that they were wrong WRT the surge with mockery. Same old, same old, politics as usual. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/93 "2008-08-08T08:15:18Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] and many of those folks have forgotten that the word “surge” is a perfectly cromulent word, when someone mentions an “economic surge” they are not necessarily using the word as a reference to Iraq but in it’s proper, dictionary meaning, but the connection IS there sometimes. [/QUOTE] My three quotes all made explicit reference to Iraq, as did the OP. Your claim lacks substantiation. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/94 "2008-08-08T13:42:22Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] …where a descent resolution was in sight… [/QUOTE] Emphasis gleefully added. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/95 "2008-08-08T13:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=levdrakon] McCain is all about compromise and exploring alternative energy and conserving, etc. [/QUOTE] Then why is he mocking Obama’s call to conserve gas by maintaining proper tire pressure? Sounds to me like he sees conservation as a trivial solution that is only worthy of derision, while drilling for more oil crack is the only way to beat this addiction to foreign oil. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/96 "2008-08-08T14:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] Now Obama and the left are falling all over themselves to co-opt what the right has been saying all along, Obama’s “16 months” meme, which he’s been pushing for several years, has finally caught up the right’s “We stand down as they stand up” mantra. [/QUOTE] I personally never had a problem with “We stand down as they stand up.” Sounded like a good plan to me. What angered me was the complete lack of intention to follow through with it. Empty words from Bush. I can only hope they won’t be from Obama, but I _know_ they will be from McCain. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/97 "2008-08-08T15:12:24Z")
[QUOTE=Weirddave] This is beautiful, and classic politics, on both sides. The rabid anti-war leftists(and Obama) were all so vehemently against the surge. Then it worked, or at least brought the situation in Iraq to the point where a descent resolution was in sight. . [/QUOTE] No - it didn’t work. The ethnic purging had run its course and building big friggin’ ghetto’s to stop them killing each other is what worked. And you should not have to be reminded that the metrics for the ‘surge’ success was a bunch of political stuff, little of which has happened. And besides - if the Surge has been such a success why are the troop levels being maintained until 2010? [Troop levels might go up](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15220816/) > [@](#): > > Last month, the top U.S. commander in the Middle East, Gen. John Abizaid, said the military would likely maintain or possibly even increase the current force levels through next spring. > > In recent months the Army has shown signs of strain, as Pentagon officials have had to extend the Iraq deployments of two brigades in order to bolster security in Baghdad and allow units heading into the country to have at least one year at home before redeploying. > > Schoomaker said he has received no new guidance from commanders in Iraq as to when the U.S. will be able to begin reducing the number of troops there. Last year officials had hoped to be down to about 100,000 by the end of this year, but escalating violence and sectarian tensions have prompted military leaders to increase forces. Tides surge. They come in and go out. This is more like a flood. And now the Kurds are threatening to annex Kirkuk. And Sadr can restart his shit any time he feels like it. The surge without either troop reductions or political success cannot be called a success and you can’t keep redefining down what ‘success’ is until you hit the mark. Jesus - if I set myself the goal of marrying Gweneth Paltrow and end up wanking over a picture in Hello magazine that’s hardly success no matter how many times I redefine it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/98 "2008-08-08T15:47:36Z")
And to add another metric to the Surge ‘success’. The whole ‘Awakening’ thing. Bribing an arming a bunch of Sunni to take care of the minor threat Al-Q posed. Creating and arming an armed Sunni resistance outside the control of the State. Now how can that possibly have a downside? But on the more funny side - the Iraq govt is apparently giving us all the bum’s rush. No permanent bases, all combat troops out by 2011 and the rest by 2013. 'Thanks for all the arms and dollars Infidel. Don’t let the door … ’ The iranians must be pissing themselves laughing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/99 "2008-08-08T17:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] …Jesus - if I set myself the goal of marrying Gweneth Paltrow and end up wanking over a picture in Hello magazine that’s hardly success no matter how many times I redefine it. [/QUOTE] I would thilnk that the restraining order would count for _something_. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681/100 "2008-08-08T17:06:30Z")
Whatever. If that’s what it takes, whatever. If they want to declare victory, and have a ticker tape parade with The Leader and McCain in the lead car with confetti raining down on them, OK. And a “Gosh, Do We Ever Love Our Heroes and the Glorious Republican Party!” Rally, OK. If that’s what it takes to get our people out of this shit swamp, OK. Bring it on, I can take it. If I have to eat some shit to close this ghastly chapter of shameful history, here’s my spoon, here’s my grin, bring it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mccains-surge-at-home-idiocy/458681.md?page=6)