# McClellan press briefing 9/6/05. Maybe the press has found their balls? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2005, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481 "2005-09-07T05:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/81 "2005-09-09T12:55:41Z")
Damn… I hadn’t seen that yet. Hit me like a suckerpunch to the gut. Damn. I still like the other one simply for the fact that a reporter was finally saying what needed to be said after years of the press kowtowing to the administration, but, damn… that was one hell of a powerful speech you linked to. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/82 "2005-09-09T14:34:22Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I think the New Orleans “story” will be a lot harder to displace than a lot of people here seem to think, simply because its effects are more tangible and visible to Americans than, for example, the tsunami. > > Hundreds of thousands of people are now homeless, and for a long time will have to rely on the rest of America for help. An important point. This is the Dust Bowl for our generation. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/83 "2005-09-09T15:15:27Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > An important point. This is the Dust Bowl for our generation. I think you’re right. In the thread on whether “refugee” is the right word for the victims, I was reminded of the Woody Guthrie songs about the people getting away from the Dustbowl, where they were called refugees mostly by others. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/84 "2005-09-09T15:29:48Z")
Re the blame game: [When people do not want to play the blame game, they’re to blame.](http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/08.html#a4865) As far as dealing with folks in authority now vs. later, consider what happened after Pearl Harbor ([Making Light)](http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006771.html#006771): > [@](#): > > So, let’s talk about WWII for a moment. Specifically, let’s talk about, not the end, but the start of WWII for the United States: The devastating surprise attack on Pearl Harbor. > > The Pearl Harbor attack took place just before 8:00 am local time on a Sunday morning, 7 December 1941. Surprise was total, sucess was complete: Within minutes 2,400 Americans were dead, five out of the eight battleships in the harbor were sinking. The men responsible for the defense of Pearl Harbor were Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, Commander, US Pacific Fleet, and Major General Walter C. Short, Commanding General of the Hawaiian Department. > > Ten days earlier, on 27 November, Admiral Kimmel received a “war warning” from the Chief of Naval Operations indicating that war was imminent. Rather than prepare an active defense of Hawaii against attack, General Short set up passive defenses against sabotage. > > Over an hour before the raid, USS Ward, a destroyer, fired on and sank a Japanese midget submarine in the Pearl Harbor approaches. Admiral Kimmel was informed of that sinking, but no alert was issued; no planes were launched, no guns manned. > > The failure of the New Orleans levees during a major hurricane had been predicted for years. When assistant secretary of the Army Mike Parker, head of the Corps of Engineers, objected to cuts in funding for Mississippi delta flood control during testimony before congress, Mr. Bush fired him. Rather than strengthen the levees, President Bush cut the funding for their improvement and maintenance by 80%. Rather than create plans for a hurricane strike on New Orleans, FEMA outsourced planning to a civilian agency. It is unclear whether those plans were ever produced. Seventy two hours before the levees broke, Hurricane Katrina’s path and strength had been accurately forecast by the National Weather Service. The Departmnet of Homeland Security took no effective measures in response. > > One day after the Japanese attack, President Roosevelt asked congress to declare war in the “date that will live in infamy” address. One day after the levees broke, President Bush compared himself to President Roosevelt and accepted a gift guitar. > > Two days after the attack, the Knox Commission (9-14 December 1941) investigated the facts. Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox went to Pearl Harbor, and reported back to the President. > > Two days after the levees broke, Bush returned to Washington. > > On 16 December 1941, nine days after the attack, General Short was relieved of command. > > On 08 September 2005, nine days after the levees broke, Michael Brown is still director of FEMA. > > On 17 December 1941, ten days after the attack, Admiral Kimmel was relieved of command. > > No one knows what tomorrow will bring, but I’m willing to bet that ten days after the levees broke Michael Chertoff will still be Secretary of Homeland Security. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/85 "2005-09-09T16:26:15Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > Re the blame game: > > When people do not want to play the blame game, they’re to blame. Jon Stewart’s exact words on last night’s _Daily Show_. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/86 "2005-09-09T16:27:21Z")
Weren’t his exact words “He who denied it supplied it”? ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/87 "2005-09-09T16:29:54Z")
Good references, **ArcherGal** , I like it! Here’s [my take](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=334118) on usage of the term “blame game”. ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/88 "2005-09-09T17:34:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Weren’t his exact words “He who denied it supplied it”? I believe that was Aristotle. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/89 "2005-09-09T19:09:01Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > I believe that was Aristotle. 😉 Actually, it was a 7-y.o. boy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/90 "2005-09-09T19:14:57Z")
I’ll believe the Bush apologists don’t want to play the “blame game” when they stop trying to blame the Katrina fiasco on the governor and the mayor. ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/91 "2005-09-09T20:04:00Z")
Well, McClellan should look on the bright side: No one is asking about Karl Rove anymore… Seriously, this is how this administration eats their own. If you stated something as fact in a press briefing, and then later found that it was a lie (as happened to McClellan in the Rove debacle), and got shredded over it, wouldn’t your first words be “I QUIT!”? Unless they were words somewhat stronger in tone… I was starting to feel sorry for him being used as a punching bag, but then I came back to reality. He should be under no illusions by now as to whom he works for. If he wants to be the Mouthpiece of Sauron, he can damn well deal with having his head handed to him. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/92 "2005-09-09T20:26:38Z")
> [@Plynck](#): > > Well, McClellan should look on the bright side: No one is asking about Karl Rove anymore… > > Seriously, this is how this administration eats their own. If you stated something as fact in a press briefing, and then later found that it was a lie (as happened to McClellan in the Rove debacle), and got shredded over it, wouldn’t your first words be “I QUIT!”? Unless they were words somewhat stronger in tone… I was starting to feel sorry for him being used as a punching bag, but then I came back to reality. He should be under no illusions by now as to whom he works for. If he wants to be the Mouthpiece of Sauron, he can damn well deal with having his head handed to him. As a public employee, shouldn’t we know how much Scotty gets paid to be that punching bag? Admittedly, it’ll just be a drop in the bucket compared to whatever sweetheart “we’re sorry about your soul, but at least you get a cushy job in compensation” deal he has worked out afterwards, but it’d be interesting to know. How much does Scotty’s soul sell for? How much could Ari’s be rented for? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![ltfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@ltfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ltfire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/93 "2005-09-09T20:36:31Z")
AP reporting Coast Guard leader put in charge of FEMA. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/94 "2005-09-09T20:45:44Z")
> [@ltfire](#): > > AP reporting Coast Guard leader put in charge of FEMA. No, he wasn’t put in charge of FEMA, although this is what they want everyone to believe. bizolding mine > [@](#): > > Allen had been directing efforts in New Orleans as Brown’s acting assistant. Chertoff said he informed Allen Friday morning that he would take over the entire FEMA **mission** in the **region**. > [@](#): > > Brown, under fire over his qualifications and what critics call a bungled response to Katrina, **will return to his duties in Washington as overall FEMA chief** , Chertoff said. See the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/95 "2005-09-09T21:40:55Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > See the difference? Sure. He put in like 8 days hard bumbling and now it’s back to looking at porn in his nice comfy office. -Joe, Arabian Stud ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/96 "2005-09-09T22:42:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Sure. He put in like 8 days hard bumbling and now it’s back to looking at porn in his nice comfy office. > > -Joe, Arabian Stud Yeah, I can already picture him shooting “threes” into his wastebasket. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/97 "2005-09-10T00:01:40Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’ll believe the Bush apologists don’t want to play the “blame game” when they stop trying to blame the Katrina fiasco on the governor and the mayor. And I’ll start believing both sides when they all share the fault like they should. It was the combined faults on the part of all governmental officials from the Mayor on up to the President…nothing more, nothing less. This hurricane did one thing that no partizan effort could ever do so succinctly…exposed the ineptitude of each outstanding governmental official from President on down to Mayor. Once you wrap your head around that one, you will see how ridiculous the blame game is between the left and right. The real blame game to be played (when some of you guys get around to stop playing the partizan one) is the citizens and the government that failed. Step up to plate for a change and stop fucking around with you partizan babble. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/98 "2005-09-10T16:28:44Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > you will see how ridiculous the blame game is between the left and right. Congratulations, you’re a vector for memetic infection! It’s not ‘blame gaming’, it’s accountability. Ironic, as that was even in the press briefing that started this thread. > [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > The real blame game to be played (when some of you guys get around to stop playing the partizan one) is the citizens and the government that failed. Step up to plate for a change and stop fucking around with you partizan babble. See, part of the problem is that Bush and Co? They’ve taken **no** responsibility for this. None. And based on FEMA’s response, they’re not able to deal with another national disaster, let alone a deliberate terrorist attack on a massive scale. See, local mayors fucking up is bad, and all… but now I know that even if my state has got it together the feds will leave me high and dry. This isn’t partisan. That is, if we ignore the devestating talking point: blame game blame game blame game blame game it’s too soon to politicize the blame game blame game blame game freedom. Thank you my fellow Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/99 "2005-09-10T18:02:57Z")
> [@Yeticus Rex](#): > > And I’ll start believing both sides when they all share the fault like they should. > > It was the combined faults on the part of all governmental officials from the Mayor on up to the President…nothing more, nothing less. This hurricane did one thing that no partizan effort could ever do so succinctly…exposed the ineptitude of each outstanding governmental official from President on down to Mayor. Once you wrap your head around that one, you will see how ridiculous the blame game is between the left and right. Absolutely, the mayor and the governor shoulder a large portion of blame, here, and most of the left-leaning posters I’ve seen on this board have acknowledged that. We tend to talk more about Bush, of course, because most of us do not live in Lousiana, and therefore aren’t directly affected by the governor’s (much less the mayor’s) stunning incompetence. So we’re tending to focuse criticism on the incompetents in this situation who are in a position to screw us all over: Bush, and his associated cronies. Funny that very few Republicans on the board seem willing to trace the blame any higher than the governor of Louisiana. The ones that are, are mostly Republicans who had already become disaffected with Bush. The ones that supported him before Katrina seem pretty adamant that none of this mess be laid at his feet. Seems to me you’re being a tad unfair, if you’re not going to listen to either side until they _both_ start owning up to their mistakes. One side already has. If you’re not going to listen to us until they do the same, well… you’re not going to be hearing much for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481/100 "2005-09-10T18:33:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > One side already has. If you’re not going to listen to us until they do the same, well… you’re not going to be hearing much for a long, long time. Do you have a cite for this? I’m not trying to be a punk, but every word I’ve heard from local governments was placing the blame cleanly on the feds. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellan-press-briefing-9-6-05-maybe-the-press-has-found-their-balls/320481.md?page=6)