# McClellan's Book **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879 "2008-05-28T14:40:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/41 "2008-05-28T20:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] I bet Rice stays a good girl (from Dubya’s perspective) till the day they bury her. -Joe [/QUOTE] Libby too; you don’t think that pardon came without a price (beyond what’s he’s alread done) and a second, yet-to-be-dropped-shoe, do you? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/42 "2008-05-28T20:59:43Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] To me, the “Bush is an alright decent guy but just too gullible and naive and trusting” argument (which I don’t believe) is actually _more_ damning than “misguided egomaniacal ideologue and incompetent with an infallibility complex” argument. [/QUOTE] From [a recent book review by Michael Lind:](http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/fantasy_fiasco_6942) > [@](#): > > Darth Vader makes a better villain than Mr. Magoo. A sinister mastermind is not only more dramatic than a myopic bumbler but more reassuring, because a universe controlled by a malevolent intelligence is at least controlled by intelligence. For this reason, explanations of the Bush administration’s disastrous foreign policy in Iraq and the world in terms of Halliburton profits and alleged connections between the House of Bush and the House of Saud satisfy many who recoil from the depressing thought that a great nation could be led into disaster by people who are well intentioned and sincerely deluded. > > The latter proposition is the thesis of _Daydream Believers,_ by Fred Kaplan, the “War Stories” columnist of Slate magazine. Supplementing well-known facts with fresh reporting, Kaplan makes the case, no less true for being familiar, that two broad streams of thought converged in the Bush administration. One intellectual tributary influenced “conservative nationalists” like Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney; the other is identified with neoconservatives like Paul Wolfowitz and Elliot Abrams. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/43 "2008-05-28T21:06:52Z")
The great thing about the book is that it serves basically to confirm, from the most inside perspective yet seen, a whole list of indictments against the Bush administration that people have been writing and speculating about since 2004. You can argue about just how far inside McClellan really was, and I’d willingly concede that he was not on the level of Rove or Rumsfeld certainly. But in his official capacity, he was the mouthpiece to the people for the administration, and that ain’t chopped liver. But just look at these obvious items: [ul] [li]the whole Valarie Plame thing[/li][li]the Hurricane Katrina debaucle (and that infamous photo of Bush flying over in Air Force One)[/li][li]Dick Cheney running a shadow government and exercizing almost presidential power[/li][li]Karl Rove’s rogue role as a political hatchet and hit man[/li][li]the use of partisan propaganda to further personal political agendas[/li][li]deliberately lying and misleading the public about particulars of the war[/li][li]using the war as a — dear God — campaign tactic (national unity, patriotism, ad nauseam)[/li][li]Bush governing from a bubble of isolation, pretty much out of touch with his own people[/li][/ul]That’s one hell of a list, all attested to in one easy reference book by a source with the credibility of a White House Press Secretary which, while not necessarily meaningful or helpful in the eyes of political insiders, might impress an impressionable public. Unless, of course, there is a unanimous chorus of “disgruntled former employee!”, including Democrats. It’s at best a logical error to discredit this book with ad hominem argument, but it’s at worst a political blunder to join people in doing it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/44 "2008-05-28T21:13:21Z")
Rice will never invade and tell. She’s waiting for her cushy position at the Council on Foreign Relations and her retirement to the world of NGOs. No way she’ll sell that political capital in order to beat Kitty Kelley at her own game. Scott McClellan likely will have a career in punditry after this, I think that’s probably his angle. If he switches teams, he’ll probably have a place and respect amongst a certain sort. Basically, as it is today, no one in Washington has any balls, even this is too little too late. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/45 "2008-05-28T21:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=Katriona] I was wondering the opposite; usually they wait “out of respect” until their guys are out of office to publish the potentially damaging goods. [/QUOTE] FWIW, David Stockman, Mike Deaver, Larry Speakes and Donald Regan (and probably some others I forgot about) all published their inside-the-administration books while Reagan was still in office. Regan’s got the most attention with its revelation that the presidential schedule was being determined by Nancy’s astrologer (who, IIRC, waited til the Reagans were out of office before doing her tell-all). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/46 "2008-05-28T21:49:37Z")
I hope when Scott McLellan goes on _The Daily Show_ to pimp the book (and I’ve few doubts that he will) that Stewart (who journalist or not is one of the few who _does_ call “Bullshit!” [to both parties and to the media]) will skip the (usually lame anyway) middle segment and give him 2/3 of the show for an interview. I wouldn’t mind if he spread it over two nights even. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/47 "2008-05-28T21:51:44Z")
I don’t often find myself in agreement with Karl Rove. But I saw this line in a BBC article: > [@](#): > > Mr Rove, speaking on Fox News, where he is now a political commentator, said Mr McClellan should have spoken out sooner if he had concerns about White House policies. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/48 "2008-05-28T22:04:43Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] He’s simply one of the worst people to hold that job that I can remember, for either side. [/QUOTE] What an astonishing coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/49 "2008-05-28T22:12:48Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] He’s simply one of the worst people to hold that job that I can remember, for either side. [/QUOTE] You still haven’t seen Dana Perino in action?! ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/50 "2008-05-28T22:45:56Z")
I guess I’m in the minority who’s glad McClellan came out with this book. Sure, he coulda said something earlier, like I dunno, before 2004. But at least he released his insider-validated criticisms during the presidential race. The book certainly won’t help McCain, and that’s _something_ at least. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/51 "2008-05-28T23:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] You still haven’t seen Dana Perino in action?! [/QUOTE] You mean Bill Kristol in drag? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/52 "2008-05-29T00:13:08Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] There’s a joke which, I understand, they’ve been telling in the UK for years now: “George Washington was the president who could not tell a lie, Richard Nixon was the president who could not tell the truth, and George W. Bush is the president who cannot tell the difference.” [/QUOTE] They’ve been telling that one in the US since at least Lyndon Johnson. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840870,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840870,00.html) Scroll down about half the page, or search for “johnson.” ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/53 "2008-05-29T02:00:47Z")
McClellen is scheduled to be on _Countdown_ Thursday night. That should be interesting. For some reason this “revelation” sticks in my mind: per McClellen, Bush simply _does not remember_ if he ever did cocaine. I’ve heard of lost weekends, but this guy may have lost a whole decade. I’m beginning to understand why the Founding Fathers were loathe to set up a simple, thorough-going democracy. They thought “the mob” wasn’t up to governing itself well; and given that we keep electing incompetents like Bush to lead us, they may have been right. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/54 "2008-05-29T02:26:30Z")
> [@](#): > > You still haven’t seen Dana Perino in action?! No, but if you’ve got a link to some video, let’s have it! Oh, you mean at work. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/55 "2008-05-29T02:41:53Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] …For some reason this “revelation” sticks in my mind: per McClellen, Bush simply _does not remember_ if he ever did cocaine… [/QUOTE] That’s just plain sloppy! I remember every single drug I didn’t do, clear as a bell! Yohimbine, for instance. Only available from Jivaro headhunters in the Amazon. And absinthe, though I hear that all it does is make the heart grow fonder. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/56 "2008-05-29T02:44:52Z")
> [@](#): > > For some reason this “revelation” sticks in my mind: per McClellen, Bush simply does not remember if he ever did cocaine. You have to understand, he was snorting anything anybody put in front of him back then. Who knew what any of it was? Not him, that’s for damn sure. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/57 "2008-05-29T06:48:07Z")
I have not made up mind about McClellan. I disagree with the statement by Rove above. I want to read his book before making a final judgment, but I think that McClellan knew he was very far down on the totem pole when it came to making policy. He knew his place, and any disagreements would have been ignored, and if too forceful, would have most likely required his resignation. Which if he had done so I would give him a lot more credit. He knew he was a puppet, but I think in the beginning he thought he was an honest puppet. Disseminating propaganda? Yes. Spinning stories to favor the White House? That was his bloody job. Telling outright lies? I will give him the benefit of the doubt and that he thought his higher ups would not use him like that. When he finally realized that they would, I think he jumped ship as gracefully as he could. It will be interesting to see what, if any, secondary sources he provides. I can’t imagine he had much access to original information after he left. Checking stats at Wikipedia, I couldn’t help noticing that [Press Secretary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Press_Secretary) seems a rather high turnover position across all administrations. Looks like Truman went through them faster than he did generals. Does anyone know of a good site that lists books by administration insiders? How does Bush compare to his predecessors? ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/58 "2008-05-29T06:58:56Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] They’ve been telling that one in the US since at least Lyndon Johnson. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840870,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840870,00.html) Scroll down about half the page, or search for “johnson.” [/QUOTE] Ya know, I don’t have too many hard and fast rules about using the internet… but _never run a search for “johnson”_ is one of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/59 "2008-05-29T12:52:08Z")
Have any of you had a chance to listen to the [NPR interview with McClellan this morning?](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90923282) The weasel is doing the backpedal shuffle. Listen to the entire four minute interview and tell me he hasn’t been gotten to. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879/60 "2008-05-29T12:58:11Z")
[QUOTE=Agnostic Pagan] Checking stats at Wikipedia, I couldn’t help noticing that [Press Secretary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House_Press_Secretary) seems a rather high turnover position across all administrations. Looks like Truman went through them faster than he did generals. [/QUOTE] Some last longer than others, but sooner or later they **always** try to take over the country with an army of killer tomatoes. The job does something to 'em. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcclellans-book/450879.md?page=4)