# McDonald's to Hourly Workers; Drop Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602 "2010-09-30T14:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/41 "2010-09-30T19:56:22Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > If you’re going to make a claim like that, you’re going to need to back it up. Why would you assume that the majority would go for the cheapest when they could just as easily choose to get nothing? Surely, nothing is cheaper than something. How can you make any sort of assumption about the needs of the employees? What if they have kids, have a health condition, regularly get sick? Surely they’ll choose more. Similarly, I imagine a lot of single people and high school students that work there can probably get away fine with lesser insurance and still not exceed their coverage. > > No… If I have $5000 in medical bills, but only get reimbursed for $2000 of it, they still benefit compared to not being covered. And complaining about a lower bound is silly too. I haven’t ever had an accident, so you could argue that every year I pay into my car insurance and don’t get in a crash that I’m getting fucked, but that’s the cost of insurance. > > > [@](#): > > > > That’s not insurance; that’s a ripoff. In fact, McDonald’s employees will be doing a whole hell of a lot better if this plan has to be dropped. > > I agree that it’s not good coverage, but I disagree that they’re necessarily better off without it. I imagine for many of them, who maybe get sick a couple times, and get a routine physical, it’s good. Sure, if they get some serious illness, they’re not covered, but they wouldn’t be covered if they had no insurance either. > > An advantage of coverage that you’re neglecting is that, without coverage, many people will often wait until they’re very sick, go to the ER, and rack up a huge bill they can never afford. These sorts of things end up getting passed on to everyone else which ultimately drives up the price for everyone. Instead, with even crappy coverage, they can see a doctor sooner and cheaper, because they have coverage, and they are less likely to get as sick. Hell, with insurance, they can get regular preventative screenings that could easily save their lives that they won’t get without insurance. [Here](http://www.ahrq.gov/research/ria19/expriach1.htm) is a chart showing health care cost distribution in the US. Note that 50% of the population sends \< $664 for healthcare in a given year, and 80% spend less then $3200. Since I suspect the workers in question skew young, their numbers are probably lower. Assuming an average of $700 a year in premiums, they are almost certainly paying more for insurance than they would pay in healthcare expenses without insurance (and I’m ignoring the copays here, which makes it worse.) That might be fine if the insurance has the upside of covering the rare high expense procedure, but this insurance doesn’t do even that. McDonalds might as well be offering a chance to play the numbers as a benefit. If I were the insurance company I’d pay McDonalds a bounty for every sucker ^h^h^h hourly employee signed up. Obligatory joke: No surprise here really, since McD’s menu says to customers “drop dead.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/42 "2010-09-30T19:59:37Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > If you’re going to make a claim like that, you’re going to need to back it up. Why would you assume that the majority would go for the cheapest when they could just as easily choose to get nothing? Surely, nothing is cheaper than something. How can you make any sort of assumption about the needs of the employees? What if they have kids, have a health condition, regularly get sick? Surely they’ll choose more. Similarly, I imagine a lot of single people and high school students that work there can probably get away fine with lesser insurance and still not exceed their coverage. Even assuming that _all_ of them spring for the $5000 plan, they’re still getting screwed. > [@](#): > > No… If I have $5000 in medical bills, but only get reimbursed for $2000 of it, they still benefit compared to not being covered. And complaining about a lower bound is silly too. I haven’t ever had an accident, so you could argue that every year I pay into my car insurance and don’t get in a crash that I’m getting fucked, but that’s the cost of insurance. If you have $5000 in medical bills and only get reimbursed for $2000 of it, you are basically just as screwed as if you weren’t covered at all. Remember, these employees have already forked out more than a third of the coverage limit, including for years when they had no medical expenses at all. The point is that your car insurance is _not_ a screwjob when you _do_ have a crash. This mini-med plan is a screwjob whether or not the employee gets sick. > [@](#): > > Hell, with insurance, they can get regular preventative screenings that could easily save their lives that they won’t get without insurance. Not with this insurance. There’s no indication that preventive care doesn’t count against the benefit cap. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/43 "2010-09-30T20:27:16Z")
The sidebar seems to indicate that the plan covers routine doctor visits (after copay). So regular preventive care is probably covered. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/44 "2010-09-30T21:39:53Z")
The sadly amusing part of this whole story is that Republicans somehow think this story an indictment of the Obama administration rather than the health insurance companies. The truth is that it isn’t the $100 doctor’s office visit that most Americans fear. That bill we can cover on our own. We’re really afraid of the chronic illness or the catastrophic illness and having no medical insurance to cover it. These lousy, overpriced plans do absolutely nothing to address that concern at all. They are expensive, provide little coverage and do nothing but hand over funds to insurance company executives. Worse they let companies that offer them pretend they’re being nice to their employees. Would that Republicans and Democrats had the guts to admit that nothing really works but single payer but that obviously isn’t going to happen. The Dems are gutless and the Reps are heartless. All Americans pay the price in increased medical bills and a completely inefficient system. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/45 "2010-09-30T21:54:00Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > > Perhaps my jab is simply random, but please allow me to restate the problem. > > > > McDonald’s does not offer ‘free’ health care to its factory-floor workers. It does allow them to buy policies from Aetna. Under the plan offered, a premium of $727 buys you a policy with a maximum coverage of $2,000. For $1,200 you get an annual cap of $5,000. > > Does \*any \*company offer free health care to its workers? I’m a salaried employee and my weekly premium costs are comparable to the medium-higher benefit McDonald’s plan. My annual cap is higher, but… I guess I’m not feeling the outrage. I’m frankly amazed that McDonald’s workers have options as good as that. > > When I worked for Pizza Hut many years ago, the insurance offered was much worse. I didn’t buy it and neither did any of my co-workers, to my knowledge. Just to be the threadshitter, yeah, my boss does. Of course, this is Canada, and a small business, so 8 employees for a month is just slightly more than what I pay in rent a month for a one bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/46 "2010-09-30T23:32:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > > Perhaps my jab is simply random, but please allow me to restate the problem. > > > > McDonald’s does not offer ‘free’ health care to its factory-floor workers. It does allow them to buy policies from Aetna. Under the plan offered, a premium of $727 buys you a policy with a maximum coverage of $2,000. For $1,200 you get an annual cap of $5,000. > > Does \*\*_any company offer free health care to its workers?_ I’m a salaried employee and my weekly premium costs are comparable to the medium-higher benefit McDonald’s plan. My annual cap is higher, but… I guess I’m not feeling the outrage. I’m frankly amazed that McDonald’s workers have options as good as that. My son works for UPS. At least as of last year, the company covered his medical insurance (as an union hourly). I don’t believe he had to pay anything. He has recently moved to management, and no longer has the union backing. He now has to pay a monthly amount to cover his health care. So yes. At least one company offers free health care (or did). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/47 "2010-10-01T02:06:24Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > [ > > My son works for UPS. At least as of last year, the company covered his medical insurance (as an union hourly). I don’t believe he had to pay anything. He has recently moved to management, and no longer has the union backing. He now has to pay a monthly amount to cover his health care. > > So yes. At least one company offers free health care (or did). Nope, your sons _Union Dues_ covered his share ($30-$70/Mo are the dues, from what I can see)). My Mom used to get the same deal for us. TANSTAAFL. Actually, the plan offered by McD’s for it’s PT workers, etc isn’t terrible, as those things go. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/48 "2010-10-01T02:23:10Z")
I saw the article in the WSJ this morning and absolutely knew that this would be the SDMB’s take on it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/49 "2010-10-01T02:24:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I saw the article in the WSJ this morning and absolutely knew that this would be the SDMB’s take on it. Which is? Who \*is \*“the SDMB”? Is everyone here in agreement?:dubious: Paul is a great guy, but he and I have different opinions on many things. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/50 "2010-10-01T02:42:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > I saw the article in the WSJ this morning and absolutely knew that this would be the SDMB’s take on it. > > Which is? Who \*is \*“the SDMB”? Is everyone here in agreement?:dubious: > > Paul is a great guy, but he and I have different opinions on many things. Sorry, and I agree. I meant the OP’s take. I agree that view isn’t the unanimous view of “the SDMB” (e.g., I’m part of the SDMB, much to some people’s chagrin, and I disagree). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/51 "2010-10-01T02:57:33Z")
Good Morning. Forgive me, what other take is obvious? McDonald’s is making money selling insurance to its lower-class workers. It wants the rules to change to allow it to continue to make profits off of this well in excess of international norms. Unless I am mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/52 "2010-10-01T03:12:44Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Good Morning. > > Forgive me, what other take is obvious? McDonald’s is making money selling insurance to its lower-class workers. It wants the rules to change to allow it to continue to make profits off of this well in excess of international norms. > > Unless I am mistaken. You are quite mistaken, sir. McDonald’s negotiated with Aetna on behalf of its hourly employees for inexpensive health insurance that covers 100% of the health care expenses of 85% of its hourly employees that purchase the insurance. Many hourly employees actually do purchase that insurance. So, everyone’s happy. But no, Obama’s not happy. The guvmint needs to butt it’s big ass-nose into the situation by mandating that all health insurance plans must only pay a certain percentage toward administration. And these types of plans can’t meet that standard because of the high turnover in the industry. So, McDonald’s will not be able to offer this coverage to its hourly employees any more. You know, the coverage that McDonad’s and the employees and Aetna were all perfectly happy with. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/53 "2010-10-01T04:00:52Z")
So the numbers I have shown for other (German and Chinese) companies are not correct? Or perhaps Aetna and McDonald’s are simply so mismanaged they cannot do what other companies do and so they must be allowed to charge more than international norms? ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/54 "2010-10-01T04:14:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > > Good Morning. > > > > Forgive me, what other take is obvious? McDonald’s is making money selling insurance to its lower-class workers. It wants the rules to change to allow it to continue to make profits off of this well in excess of international norms. > > > > Unless I am mistaken. > > You are quite mistaken, sir. > > McDonald’s negotiated with Aetna on behalf of its hourly employees for inexpensive health insurance that covers 100% of the health care expenses of 85% of its hourly employees that purchase the insurance. Many hourly employees actually do purchase that insurance. So, everyone’s happy. > > But no, Obama’s not happy. The guvmint needs to butt it’s big ass-nose into the situation by mandating that all health insurance plans must only pay a certain percentage toward administration. And these types of plans can’t meet that standard because of the high turnover in the industry. So, McDonald’s will not be able to offer this coverage to its hourly employees any more. You know, the coverage that McDonad’s and the employees and Aetna were all perfectly happy with. Yep. Big ol’ nasty Obama is doing this to people all over the nation. Everyone’s perfectly happy with their health insurance, and everybody just wants mean ol’ President Liberal McSpendypants to back away from the poor, helpless insurance companies that have been skating by on razor-thin profit margins and administrative costs. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/55 "2010-10-01T04:16:43Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > inexpensive health insurance Good one! The expense of the insurance is not the point. $700/year, with a max payout of $2,000. That is a poor deal, any way you look at it. The suckers would be much better off self-insuring, and simply sticking $13.46 per week into an envelope under their mattress. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/56 "2010-10-01T04:20:23Z")
Would anyone here bet $700 in Vegas for the chance to win $2000? ---
**Author:** ![BayouHazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@BayouHazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BayouHazard)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/57 "2010-10-01T04:22:00Z")
My company offers similarly outrageously sucky Aetna coverage. $250 a month premium, $35 a month prescription bennies cap, max $2K payout for hospitalization. I looked at the coverage, and it would have saved me no money. It made more sense to continue to pay out of pocket than buy their insurance, because my maintenance meds run $500-600 ish, retail, per month. Half my income, pretty much. But my county has a low-income health system, and I enrolled last year… …and I’m still waiting on needed sinus surgery from the county health system, for a sinus infection a private doc diagnosed in '07. Hey-at least no migraines this week…too bad the low-grade fever’s back…:mad: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/58 "2010-10-01T05:03:05Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Would anyone here bet $700 in Vegas for the chance to win $2000? Sure! I’ll take “heads”! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/59 "2010-10-01T05:16:14Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I saw the article in the WSJ this morning and absolutely knew that this would be the SDMB’s take on it. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > > Good Morning. > > > > Forgive me, what other take is obvious? McDonald’s is making money selling insurance to its lower-class workers. It wants the rules to change to allow it to continue to make profits off of this well in excess of international norms. > > > > Unless I am mistaken. > > You are quite mistaken, sir. > > McDonald’s negotiated with Aetna on behalf of its hourly employees for inexpensive health insurance that covers 100% of the health care expenses of 85% of its hourly employees that purchase the insurance. Many hourly employees actually do purchase that insurance. So, everyone’s happy. > > But no, Obama’s not happy. The guvmint needs to butt it’s big ass-nose into the situation by mandating that all health insurance plans must only pay a certain percentage toward administration. And these types of plans can’t meet that standard because of the high turnover in the industry. So, McDonald’s will not be able to offer this coverage to its hourly employees any more. You know, the coverage that McDonad’s and the employees and Aetna were all perfectly happy with. If you had read the article, you would know that Aetna has nothing to do with McDonald’s mini-med plan, and that Aetna just happens to be a mini-med plan provider for some other companies. Thanks for playing. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/60 "2010-10-01T05:22:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > > [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > > > Would anyone here bet $700 in Vegas for the chance to win $2000? > > Sure! I’ll take “heads”! You’re one of them statistics geniuses ain’tcha? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602.md?page=4)