# McDonald's to Hourly Workers; Drop Dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 30, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602 "2010-09-30T14:37:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/61 "2010-10-01T05:33:29Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > > Or, y’know, pissed at the law. Here, you’ve got 85% of people happy with what they’ve got, and then a law gets passed that’s supposed to help these people but really just causes the private sector to desert them. > > There is a huge difference between coverage being adequate for the needs of 85% of a given population and 85% of people being happy with what they’ve got. Huge. > > And those other 15%? They’re not just a random outlier. Those aren’t people currently “unsatisfied” with their coverage. Those are people with medical bills so big they and their families went bankrupt trying to pay for it. 15% of McDonald workers are bankrupt because of medical bills? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/62 "2010-10-01T06:57:32Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > You are quite mistaken, sir. > > McDonald’s negotiated with Aetna on behalf of its hourly employees for inexpensive health insurance that covers 100% of the health care expenses of 85% of its hourly employees that purchase the insurance. Many hourly employees actually do purchase that insurance. So, everyone’s happy. You might try actually reading the link someday. From it (and that socialist rag, the WSJ, I might add) > [@](#): > > A single worker can pay $14 a week for a plan that caps annual benefits at $2,000, or about $32 a week to get coverage up to $10,000 a year. > > Last week, a senior McDonald’s official informed the Department of Health and Human Services that the restaurant chain’s insurer won’t meet a 2011 requirement to spend at least 80% to 85% of its premium revenue on medical care. > > McDonald’s and trade groups say the percentage, called a medical loss ratio, is unrealistic for mini-med plans because of high administrative costs owing to frequent worker turnover, combined with relatively low spending on claims. Caps are hardly 100% of expenses, not to mention whatever copays there are. But this part was the best, and I repeat > [@](#): > > combined with relatively low spending on claims. They are not paying much out (as expected, from the chart I linked to on page one.) and this is the reason the new plan is so unfair to them. :rolleyes: I bet if they paid a bit more, or reduced premiums, they’d be in fine shape. McDonalds is good at logistics. If they can bring on and pay all those low wage temps, they can handle their healthcare also. Given your understanding of this, I presume that you buy insurance at the rental counter also - another good deal, right? ---
**Author:** ![EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac8455/32.png) [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EVERYNAMEISTAKEN)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/63 "2010-10-01T07:12:47Z")
They say the same thing to their animals, then force them to. [http://mccruelty.com](http://mccruelty.com) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/64 "2010-10-01T09:16:51Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > > > Or, y’know, pissed at the law. Here, you’ve got 85% of people happy with what they’ve got, and then a law gets passed that’s supposed to help these people but really just causes the private sector to desert them. > > There is a huge difference between coverage being adequate for the needs of 85% of a given population and 85% of people being happy with what they’ve got. Huge. > > And those other 15%? They’re not just a random outlier. Those aren’t people currently “unsatisfied” with their coverage. Those are people with medical bills so big they and their families went bankrupt trying to pay for it. Hells bells, I _didn’t_ have a catastrophic medical anything and it wouldn’t work for me, being diabetic, having migraines and on cardiac meds, and on actonel to keep my osteopenia from rolling into osteoporosis, my medication bill would not be covered by that little plan for more than a few months … hell, actonel is $25 per pill …and some of my other meds are just about as expensive. My not particularly optional hysterectomy last year cost $10K for the procedure, and then there was 2 days in hospital, medication and anesthetologist … at least I didn’t need chemo this time. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/65 "2010-10-01T13:20:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > > inexpensive health insurance > > Good one! > > The expense of the insurance is not the point. > > $700/year, with a max payout of $2,000. That is a poor deal, any way you look at it. The suckers would be much better off self-insuring, and simply sticking $13.46 per week into an envelope under their mattress. I know, poor people are just human pets who must be protected from their own bad decisions. Gotta love liberal douche thinking. Look, the first week an employee starts at McD’s, if they pay the premium for this insurance, then they have the full coverage that week. That’s part of the idea of insurance–you pay a little over time to insure against pssibly not having that money in the future. The workers who bought the insurance agreed to it, so they apparently liked the deal. Also, I’d imagine that some people bought the insurance for reasons other than the actual coverage, such as to avoid a lapse in coverage between parents plans, school plans, and/or long-term job plans. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/66 "2010-10-01T13:25:44Z")
They are selling a product as insurance that is in fact a profit center. That is perfectly legal. I simply point out it is a ripoff of the hourly workers. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/67 "2010-10-01T13:30:14Z")
Paul, nearly everything you buy is sold to you at a profit. Why do you let yourself get ripped off like that? Maybe no one should be allowed to sell anything to you to avoid you getting ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/68 "2010-10-01T13:36:50Z")
So you are saying we ought to exempt Big Business from the rules because they can be trusted? [From Andrew Sullivan:](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/) I went over to the Kaiser Family Foundation to take a look at what I might qualify for under the healthcare law if I were a single McDonald’s worker (using 2014 dollars). Generously assuming I’d make $10/hour (I believe shift managers make about $9.81/hour) I calculate my yearly salary at $20,800 – or about 181% of poverty. _Turns out I’ll be on the hook for a premium of about $1127 a year, or about $21 per week. **That’s $11 less a week than I’d pay for McDonald’s mini-med benefits. But instead of yearly maximum benefit of $10,000 I’d have no maximum benefit at all since maximum benefits are no longer legal**. And I’d only have a maximum out-of-pocket expense of $2,083. This plan – a ‘silver’ plan under the new law – is going to be quite a lot better than McDonald’s …_ If the WSJ article is to be believed (remember when you could believe the Journal?) McDonald’s want to be exempted from the rules so they can continue to ripoff the workers. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/69 "2010-10-01T13:43:40Z")
Are you saying McDonalds is making a profit off of offering this mini-med plan to its employees? As a benefits manager I find that very hard to believe. And if it’s true, I’d love to find out how they do it. As I said above, health care benefits are a major expense for similar companies who offer similar plans. We have a mini-med plan for certain segments of our employee population, and the reason it’s there is so we can get people to work for us. We’re not making money off it by any stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/70 "2010-10-01T13:56:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Does \*any \*company offer free health care to its workers? I’m a salaried employee and my weekly premium costs are comparable to the medium-higher benefit McDonald’s plan. My annual cap is higher, but… I guess I’m not feeling the outrage. I’m frankly amazed that McDonald’s workers have options as good as that. > > When I worked for Pizza Hut many years ago, the insurance offered was much worse. I didn’t buy it and neither did any of my co-workers, to my knowledge. When I worked for Microsoft the insurance was the best ever. I can’t imagine how it could possibly have been better. No money out of my paycheck, could go to any Dr., no co-pay for visits, and they paid 100% of prescriptions. Both my son and myself could go to any Dr any time with no money in my pocket. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/71 "2010-10-01T14:08:35Z")
> [@EVERYNAMEISTAKEN](#): > > They say the same thing to their animals, then force them to. [http://mccruelty.com](http://mccruelty.com) Despite the very relevant information contained within your post I have decided to ignore it complete because death is tasty. Not to mention that it is a PETA site and I’ll eat damn near anything just in the hopes it pisses those fuckers off. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/72 "2010-10-01T14:33:01Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Are you saying McDonalds is making a profit off of offering this mini-med plan to its employees? As a benefits manager I find that very hard to believe. And if it’s true, I’d love to find out how they do it. As I said above, health care benefits are a major expense for similar companies who offer similar plans. > > We have a mini-med plan for certain segments of our employee population, and the reason it’s there is so we can get people to work for us. We’re not making money off it by any stretch. How could they not make money? They are paying out less than 80% of the amount taken in. They would be complete idiots if they were unable to administer a plan for less than 20%. As stated before, German and Chinese companies pay out much more. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/73 "2010-10-01T14:38:40Z")
Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples Paul? Also, I don’t think it matters how much McD’s makes–if the worker chooses to buy it, then it’s not a rip off. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/74 "2010-10-01T14:40:32Z")
The insurance companies that totally lose it if you suggest that they should operate on less than 20% profit and admin are the very first to bleat and bitch about how inefficient government is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/75 "2010-10-01T14:40:34Z")
:dubious: People _chose_ to invest with Bernie Madoff. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/76 "2010-10-01T14:44:58Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Are you sure you are comparing apples to apples Paul? > > Also, I don’t think it matters how much McD’s makes–if the worker chooses to buy it, then it’s not a rip off. Excellent point. If the hourly workers are outsmarted by management, it serves them right. Cheat them of coverage and let them die. :rolleyes: Anyone should be allowed to sell anything at all and claim it is health care insurance. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/77 "2010-10-01T14:50:47Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > Good one! > > > > The expense of the insurance is not the point. > > > > $700/year, with a max payout of $2,000. That is a poor deal, any way you look at it. The suckers would be much better off self-insuring, and simply sticking $13.46 per week into an envelope under their mattress. > > I know, poor people are just human pets who must be protected from their own bad decisions. Gotta love liberal douche thinking. Yes I realize that this is the Libertarian straw man talking now. There are consumer protection laws for a reason. I’m sure in Libertopia, everything will work out just great though. And thanks for using the “liberal douche” meme. I won the pool! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/78 "2010-10-01T14:50:56Z")
I’m continually amazed that people who think its immoral for a big guy to take money from a little guy have no problem with smart people ripping off dumb people. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/79 "2010-10-01T15:16:47Z")
I don’t think the Bernie Madoff or consumer protection references are on point here. Paul and EP are claiming that the insurance is a rip-off even if McD’s performs completely as promised. Bernie clearly did not perform as promised, and consumer protection is similarly largely geared to protecting consumers from fraud. Look, call me crazy, but I think all humans should be treated equally and respected as humans. I realize that at the SDMB that puts me in the minority on certain issues. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602/80 "2010-10-01T15:28:24Z")
But the insurance _is_ a rip off. It pays practically nothing and costs a lot. All the mini-med plans do is illustrate the flaws in our health care system. They should be illegal. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-to-hourly-workers-drop-dead/555602.md?page=5)