# McDonald's worker in Denmark meme, any truth to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231 "2016-08-18T22:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/21 "2016-08-19T12:48:56Z")
Yes, in countries with real health care, the employer does not have to pay for it - everyone has it “free”, i.e. by being a legal resident. So “full benefits” means the icing - prescription coverage, sick days, life insurance options, dental coverage, etc. Also, yes - pay and living expenses are relative. I tell people that we in North America (particularly in Canada) live in a fool’s paradise, where people pumping gas or flipping burgers can own their own their own car, possibly even live in their own place, and have all sorts of toys. Outside of North America, general expectations are much lower. I bet the proportion of Danes who own a car is much lower - but then, you could probably walk across the country in a day or two… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/22 "2016-08-19T13:04:56Z")
So, how many Big Macs can a McDonald’s worker buy for an hour of labor, here and in other countries? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/23 "2016-08-19T13:50:52Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, in countries with real health care, the employer does not have to pay for it - everyone has it “free”, i.e. by being a legal resident. So “full benefits” means the icing - prescription coverage, sick days, life insurance options, dental coverage, etc. Well, it doesn’t have to be paid as a separate, specific, individual benefit. It still needs to get paid as taxes, which may cover only healthcare or may cover other items as well (for example, Seguridad Social covers healthcare including prescriptions and basic dental, but also other items such as disability or unemployment benefits; for people employed by a second party, the employer pays half the tax and the employee the other half). And in those countries, stuff such as “sick days” are also often regulated by law or by group agreements and the same for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/24 "2016-08-19T14:00:42Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Most people in Europe and in quite a few Latin American countries wouldn’t believe that in the US it is possible to work legally without a contract and without any “benefits”. It’s quite a wonder even in this corner of Africa - hell, our office cleaning lady gets paid maternity leave, annual & sick leave and benefits ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/25 "2016-08-19T14:28:36Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > … I bet the proportion of Danes who own a car is much lower - but then, you could probably walk across the country in a day or two… Grabbing some numbers from statistics sites it is 2.335 million passenger cars (2014) for a population of 5.707 million (2016), e.g. 40.9 cars for 100 people. That’s in spite of high taxation on cars as a luxury item - according to a 2011 EU study a certain model/engine/trim version of VW Golf was 28,267 € inclusive taxes in Denmark; in Germany it was 16,825 € inclusive taxes ([Source (German language)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftszahlen_zum_Automobil#Autopreise_in_der_Europ.C3.A4ischen_Union)) For the US I found a 2011 number of 127,576,670 passenger cars (2011), with 324 million population (Wikipedia, current) that would be 39.4 cars for 100 people. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/26 "2016-08-19T15:13:25Z")
Re my above post: on second thoughts, my numbers for the US might not accurately reflect passenger car ownership because of some vehicles being effectively passenger cars but counted as light trucks for statistics purposes. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/27 "2016-08-19T16:10:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The problem with the US is that we have a giant pool of unskilled and uneducated labor. Our low minimum wage is a symptom of that problem. A higher minimum wage wouldn’t cure it, it would just accelerate the trend to not use unskilled workers at all. Some might argue that isn’t a problem and that it is by design. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/28 "2016-08-19T18:34:29Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > Re my above post: on second thoughts, my numbers for the US might not accurately reflect passenger car ownership because of some vehicles being effectively passenger cars but counted as light trucks for statistics purposes. According to Wikipedia, the US has 797 cars per 1000 people and Denmark has 480. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/29 "2016-08-19T19:35:55Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But, as others already pointed out, _ **the U.S. worker will have to pay for health insurance and many other things that the Danish worker will NOT have to pay for** _. IOW, even when there’s a glimmer of validity in a Forbes factoid, the factoid is still slanted, misconstrued and wrong. > > Not only don’t I look at Forbes articles, but I view with suspicion any Doper so ignorant or right-wing as to click on (or post a link to :eek: ) a Forbes article. > > We had one Audit-the-Fed YouTuber show up here a year ago or so, complaining that the FRB had loaned $15 trillion to American businesses. He got his factoid from Forbes … which counted a weekly $1 billion loan renewed 52 times (i.e. for one year) as $52 billion of lending. :smack: > > Clicking a Forbes link on the off-chance there’s something useful there is like munching through dog turds hoping you luck out and find an undigested strawberry. That’s fine. I was just letting you know what the article said, so you could argue with it directly. Forbes is popular enough that I think it’s good to refute it, especially if it’s brought up. I will also add that they use the PPP: the purchase power parity index to figure out their numbers, and claim that’s about 1.4 for Denmark. Anyone know how those numbers are derived, and if they have _any_ value? I will freely admit to not being knowledgeable at all in financial matters. That’s why I’ve not offered even the slightest bit of an opinion on the matter. I mean, I get basic supply/demand curves, but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/30 "2016-08-19T20:01:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Not only don’t I look at Forbes articles, but I view with suspicion any Doper so ignorant or right-wing as to click on (or post a link to :eek: ) a Forbes article. Is Forbes even a culturally relevant thing anymore? I can’t imagine having any strongly held opinion on something that doesn’t come up often. > [@Chronos](#): > > So, how many Big Macs can a McDonald’s worker buy for an hour of labor, here and in other countries? In the US, something like 2.07 Big Macs/hour, though those might be slightly out of date ($9.90/hour / $4.79). ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/31 "2016-08-19T20:05:51Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Also, yes - pay and living expenses are relative. I tell people that we in North America (particularly in Canada) live in a fool’s paradise, where people pumping gas or flipping burgers can own their own their own car, possibly even live in their own place, and have all sorts of toys. Outside of North America, general expectations are much lower. I think you’ve got that wrong - largely, cars are a luxury in Europe, but a _necessity_ in the US. Someone pumping gas or flipping burgers in the US are _forced_ to buy a car and make car payments. In most cities, public transport is so bad (or non-existent) that the only practical way to get to work ifs by owning a car. (John Oliver had a [good explanation of the subprime auto loan business](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s)) I’ve also heard people mention that poor Americans still have cell phones, but that also misses the fact that it is now a necessity, not a luxury. Cell phones are now cheaper than land lines, and you need a phone to apply for jobs. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/32 "2016-08-19T20:08:43Z")
A big Mac is actually [cheaper in Denmark than in the US](http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/), which surprises me. So an over 18 entry level McDonald’s worker in Denmark could eat four Big Macs per hour worked. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/33 "2016-08-19T20:45:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But, as others already pointed out, _ **the U.S. worker will have to pay for health insurance and many other things that the Danish worker will NOT have to pay for** _. IOW, even when there’s a glimmer of validity in a Forbes factoid, the factoid is still slanted, misconstrued and wrong. That doesn’t logically follow. Because, as others have already pointed out, Danish workers do pay for these things, in the form of taxes. IOW, even when there’s a glimmer of truth in your claim, the claim is still slanted, misconstrued and wrong. It’s possible you could do some sort of analysis incorporating taxes and make a case for your position. But pretending that things provided by the government just fall from the sky is not a valid approach. ---
**Author:** ![mazinger\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@mazinger\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazinger_z)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/34 "2016-08-19T20:45:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > But, as others already pointed out, the U.S. worker will have to pay for health insurance and many other things that the Danish worker will NOT have to pay for. IOW, even when there’s a glimmer of validity in a Forbes factoid, the factoid is still slanted, misconstrued and wrong. > [@BigT](#): > > That’s fine. I was just letting you know what the article said, so you could argue with it directly. Forbes is popular enough that I think it’s good to refute it, especially if it’s brought up. > > I will also add that they use the PPP: the purchase power parity index to figure out their numbers, and claim that’s about 1.4 for Denmark. Anyone know how those numbers are derived, and if they have _any_ value? > > I will freely admit to not being knowledgeable at all in financial matters. That’s why I’ve not offered even the slightest bit of an opinion on the matter. I mean, I get basic supply/demand curves, but that’s about it. This idea that there is Nordic paradise very over-stated. I’ve said before on this board and recently, I went there to see for myself. Rather than post what can be interpreted as bias, let’s just clear up some of the PPP issues that BigT has mentioned. The first thing to mention is that the tax rate in Denmark is high. Tax rates are between 41% to 56%. I believe they were upwards of 70% (but a quick internet search says 65% recently), though I believe it was flatter before (meaning most payed close to the 65% mark). So, as you can see, they both lowered and stratified their tax rate. I believe there is a pass on the first 18k kroner, but after that effectively 50% of your wage goes to taxes. Oh yeah, there is a VAT of 25%. i don’t know if Big Mac index accounts for VAT. As I am a fan of the Big Mac Index, the last time I compared it (last week on business travel), the prices were off compared to the web site. Oh and cars are taxes at 180% in Denmark (how’s that for social engineering). With all those taxes, let’s take cars as an extreme example, a $20k Honda accord will now be $50k. (Even though no one mentioned it, a good reason to stay away from protectionist policies). But, you say, education and health care are free! First off, for education, how many are using it, is something that I always wonder. Second, even with my law school loans, my property tax pays for grades k-12. With law school and undergrad loans, I will pay much less than 40 years of tax at (let’s even it out) at 50% tax rate at my salary (let’s assume that I never get a raise). As for healthcare, I hardly use it, so does my family. It was free before ACA, now I will have to pay almost $18k (that’s a rant for another time). ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/35 "2016-08-19T20:52:20Z")
> [@mazinger\_z](#): > > The first thing to mention is that the tax rate in Denmark is high. Tax rates are between 41% to 56%. This supports the point I made in my prior post. Nonetheless, it’s important to appreciate that it’s very difficult to compare taxes in different countries, and just pointing to the tax rates can be very misleading. This is for a number of reasons, including that there are different jurisdictions imposing their own taxes (e.g. state taxes on income and sales, local taxes on property), different forms of taxes (e.g. the VAT tax you mention in European countries, SS & Medicare in the US) and different levels of progressivity. The general point is that anything provided by the government is paid for by the people, in the end, so just pretending that it’s free is not valid. But you need a pretty comprehensive analysis to actually compare tax levels. (I assume people have done it, somewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/36 "2016-08-19T20:56:00Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > I think you’ve got that wrong - largely, cars are a luxury in Europe, I disagree. Outside major cities, cars are very much a necessity in the UK. There are over 30M registered cars in the UK. That’s about two per family. [Cite (pdf)](https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516429/vehicle-licensing-statistics-2015.pdf) Visits tell me that the same is true for France and Belgium. Yes, there is public transport, but it’s not exactly convenient, and you often end up taking taxis. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/37 "2016-08-19T21:15:17Z")
> [@naita](#): > > A big Mac is actually [cheaper in Denmark than in the US](http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/), which surprises me. So an over 18 entry level McDonald’s worker in Denmark could eat four Big Macs per hour worked. Perhaps because they are averaging prices in a small, comparatively homogeneous country while the US figure includes both Tinytown, Idaho and NYC? ---
**Author:** ![Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrogance_ex_machina/32/192_2.png) [@Arrogance\_Ex\_Machina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrogance_Ex_Machina)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/38 "2016-08-19T21:17:42Z")
As somebody who has lived both here in the Nordic paradise (Finland and not Denmark, but they are close enough from US point of view) and in the US, I can say it’s a lot less stressful financially to be poor here. The society catches you if you fall on your ass and tries to help you back up, be it because of sudden unemployment or illness. On the other hand people like my parents (upper middle class, my mom’s a shrink and my dad used to be the boss at a paper factory with a few hundred workers under him) get a lot less money for toys here. Taxes are higher and wages are lower. At that point you don’t really get much more happiness from some extra cash though - when you already have three boats, buying a fourth or upgrading the 21 ft one to 25 ft one isn’t going to change your life much. I’d never move to US again but I can see why some people would prefer to live there. I know a couple who moved there from Ireland and are a lot happier with their new location. Oh, and cars are a luxury to European singles living in cities. Once you have a family or live outside the mass transit network they are almost as much a necessity as in the US. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/39 "2016-08-19T21:25:30Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That doesn’t logically follow. > > Because, as others have already pointed out, Danish workers do pay for these things, in the form of taxes. IOW, even when there’s a glimmer of truth in your claim, the claim is still slanted, misconstrued and wrong. > > It’s possible you could do some sort of analysis incorporating taxes and make a case for your position. But pretending that things provided by the government just fall from the sky is not a valid approach. I’m pretty sure Denmark has a more progressive tax system than the US. Which means much of the Danish McDonalds worker’s benefits are paid for by taxes paid by richer Danes. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231/40 "2016-08-19T22:51:34Z")
OK, so suppose that the Danish burger-flipper is paying 50% tax, and the American burger-flipper is paying no tax at all. After tax, they both earn enough to buy two Big Macs per hour, so by that measure, they’re even… except that the Danish burger-flipper also has health insurance and other benefits, which the American almost certainly doesn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mcdonalds-worker-in-denmark-meme-any-truth-to-it/763231.md?page=3)