# Me and RainDog got a room... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 11, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527 "2010-02-11T05:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/21 "2010-02-11T20:00:26Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > But you are not arguing ..\..that children less than 5 years should be able to consent to fight with you. I’ll argue it. Mainly just because I want to see if I really can take 28 of the little bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/22 "2010-02-11T20:15:25Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I have in the past argued that there should be circumstances for the former, actually. I think that there should probably be a much more broad “fighting words” defense to simple assault charges. I think society would be better off in general if “boys would be boys” (no gender implied, but the cliche is what it is) was less concerned with simple hand-to-hand punch-ups. Am I now a monster? I don’t know. Were you before? The question of your nature aside, I was merely pointing out the difference between having a social/sexual/psychological disorder and desiring that acting upon it should become legal. > [@](#): > > I also think, in the latter case, that there’s a profound difference between arguing that five year olds should be able to consent and arguing that the age of consent is too high, and should be reduced by a systematic method. And \*\*Cesario \*\*did the former. As to the latter, my only comment is that an age of consent is necessarily arbitrary and someone will always complain about it. > [@](#): > > I mean, (and mods can tell me if this is considered violating the rules on “baiting” but I don’t think so) as far as I can tell every time **Cesario** brought up age-of-consent stuff, he made it clear somewhere in the thread that he’d be able to cope with it if no one in his age range was able to consent ever, he just thought that it was at least possible that some children might be able to and so it should be scientifically testable. The idea that a five year old can consent to sex is disgusting. What possible scientific test could be applied? And do you really believe that testing every child every time someone wants to fuck it is even a remotely workable idea? Can’t you see what a ridiculous idea that is? > [@](#): > > I agree, for the record, that both of them had a very skeevy vibe in the way they chose to express their respective feelings, but THAT should be the grounds for any disagreement. I also don’t think either of them should be banned, and at most the \*\*Evil Captor \*\*rule should be used to confine but not eliminate the skeeviness. And it has been used, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/23 "2010-02-11T20:23:44Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I’ll argue it. > > Mainly just because I want to see if I really can take 28 of the little bastards. Linking to this website has made me very happy. I thank you. My number is 21, but I’m pretty sure I could take out at least 30. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/24 "2010-02-11T20:32:34Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I’ll argue it. > > Mainly just because I want to see if I really can take 28 of the little bastards. That reminds me of a joke. What’s the best thing about twenty eight five year olds? Ooops, wait, I’ll come in again… ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/25 "2010-02-11T20:37:19Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Discussion of a topic is not the same as approval of that topic. What’s so hard about that? I know the difference (and please don’t use the word “hard” when pedophilia has been mentioned. :eek: > [@Zeriel](#): > > I mean, I am all in favor of letting people who are pedophiles discuss their feelings and experiences regarding their pathology. I’m also all in favor of discussions of what the age of consent (for anything, be it sex, drinking, driving, contracts, whatever) should be, regardless of the motivations for that discussion. I’m also perfectly happy with the death penalty for anyone convicted of child molestation. > > Maybe it’s that I have a (relatively socially acceptable) mental issue that occasionally makes me want to commit criminal acts – I have an anger management issue of a degree that required therapy for me NOT to break into screaming in almost any argument, or for that matter to avoid getting into a fistfight nearly every time I’ve been in anything but the most quiet, upscale bars. Hell, every time I pick up a piece of glassware I have to consciously stop the urge to throw it against a wall to watch it shatter. So I don’t think I’m “broken” or “wrong”, necessarily, but I certainly have feelings/impulses that would cause me to commit “wrong” actions. I don’t think it’s out of the question that sometime I might be able to say something to someone that might convince them that some therapy or mental discipline might be for the best, in terms of preventing “pedophilia” the mental thing from turning into “child molestation” the crime and horror. I’m just a little uncomfortable about the number of threads devoted to the subject that have recently appeared. While I may be turned off by some paraphilias (water sports, scat play and extreme S&M in particular), amused by others (furries, bondage) and turned on by a few (I won’t say 😉 ), I find the idea of anyone being turned on by violating an unwilling being, human or animal, repugnant to the core. IMO there is something fundamentally wrong with a person who gets off on rape. I take this extremely personally because my daughter was touched by the 13 year old son of our neighbor when she was 5. This wasn’t just some innocent exploration, either. He had been manipulating and coercing her and had told her he’d “get her” if she told. Fortunately she was brave enough to tell us. We found out later that he had done this with other little girls in the neighborhood. The only reason he wasn’t charged with sexual assault is that there was no penetration. The only reason he’s alive or not in a wheelchair for life is that my family is better off with me at home instead of in jail. Because he was under 18 the only people who knew about it were the police and the school administrator. We couldn’t tell our neighbors, couldn’t warn anyone not to let him alone with their young daughters. When he turns 18 this year his probation is over and his record is clean. No harm no foul. :rolleyes: Everyone has impulses that they must overcome. Should I eat at McDonald’s or have a salad at home? Should I have another drink before I drive home? Should I pick up that girl at the bar or be faithful to my wife? Some people get off on doing something dangerous or that is considered wrong. They take the risk and the thrill of surviving or not getting caught strokes their pleasure center, giving them a release better than an ordinary orgasm can provide. Day to day life is dull? Try something extreme like skydiving or driving a race car. Sex life is boring? Bring a little leather into the bedroom. When that isn’t enough anymore, you push it to the next level. Base jumping, street racing, three-ways, exhibitionism and so on. It’s a drug and the high doesn’t last or isn’t strong enough so they go to the harder stuff. I don’t care if a person gets their rocks off by having Legos shoved up their ass while their partner covers them in fruit roll-ups. But the instant someone finds pleasure in the thought of destroying an innocent life that is the moment that I think they should be placed in a cage like Hannibal Lecter. Children are innocent and should remain that way for as long as possible. Life will disappoint them soon enough. From a psychological standpoint the pedos are interesting but I could never post to those \ threads because of my level of revulsion. If more of them appear I will have to stop posting to the SDMB completely, which is too bad. For as far to the left as this board and its members are, I still am entertained and occasionally educated by the liberal views. However, I will never be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles or turn-ons that I would ever want to be associated with pedophiles, even through so loose an association as an Internet message board. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/26 "2010-02-11T20:49:25Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > I don’t care if a person gets their rocks off by having Legos shoved up their ass while their partner covers them in fruit roll-ups. Meh…it sounds a lot more fun than it actually is… 🙂 Seriously, though, why couldn’t you warn your neighbors or tell them what had happened to your daughter? I mean, I assume it was a legal issue since he was also underage but what could they have done to do you if you had told the neighbors what your family went through? Maybe I’m just ignorant of the law but it seems like you should have been able to say what happened??? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/27 "2010-02-11T20:54:19Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > … Zappa … ? In all of his infinite wisdom! ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/28 "2010-02-11T21:14:21Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > I don’t care if a person gets their rocks off by having Legos shoved up their ass while their partner covers them in fruit roll-ups. But the instant someone finds pleasure in the thought of destroying an innocent life that is the moment that I think they should be placed in a cage like Hannibal Lecter. Children are innocent and should remain that way for as long as possible. Life will disappoint them soon enough. > > From a psychological standpoint the pedos are interesting but I could never post to those \ threads because of my level of revulsion. If more of them appear I will have to stop posting to the SDMB completely, which is too bad. For as far to the left as this board and its members are, I still am entertained and occasionally educated by the liberal views. However, I will never be so tolerant of alternative lifestyles or turn-ons that I would ever want to be associated with pedophiles, even through so loose an association as an Internet message board. While I don’t disagree with your reaction to child molestation (and were I in your situation, I can comfortably say I’d be in jail right now–I have a firearm and an anger management problem that I could easily choose to let off the leash), and revulsion is an understandable response to the topic, I’m personally as uncomfortable with the idea that thoughts and actions are equivalent. That is to say, I can live with the idea of pedophiles (that is, people who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children) and I can cope personally with pedophiles. In my parenthetical, I didn’t use words like “desire”, “want”, etc, because it’s a disease in the same way that chronic depression or autism are diseases in my opinion, and while it’s possible to revel in it and that’s distasteful at best, in my mind until one crosses the line from “pedophile” (desire) to “child molester” (action). And personally, I would be happy with the punishment for child molestation being death. A large part of this is my belief that being supportive of people who are pedophiles who resist their desires and don’t molest children will reduce the instance of child molestation. To me, that can mean letting them talk out their feelings to an extent as long as they’re willing to maintain the idea that they will, in the end, obey the law. I also believe that if we as a society can maintain a more supportive attitude towards pedophiles who have not yet molested, more of them will be willing to seek the treatment from professionals that can help them control their urges. I think a large part of the rash of this sort of thing lately has specifically been the level of angry opposition–the polarization is giving room for a lot of angst to fly around on both sides. And it wasn’t helped by the fact that our preeminent one has made it clear he’s lobbying for the laws to be changed at least partially so he can practice his thing while remaining law-abiding. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/29 "2010-02-11T21:17:24Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > The idea that a five year old can consent to sex is disgusting. What possible scientific test could be applied? And do you really believe that testing every child every time someone wants to fuck it is even a remotely workable idea? Can’t you see what a ridiculous idea that is? The ideas you state ARE ridiculous. The ideas the poster in question ended up stating the last time I interacted with him on the subject were not–he’d agreed that it was likely no one under age 10ish would have a shot at passing. > [@](#): > > And it has been used, hasn’t it? Too excessively, in my opinion (I would have allowed him to post a not-excessive number of threads on the subject, perhaps one total on the front pages of all the forums at any given time), but this is not ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/30 "2010-02-11T21:26:18Z")
> [@Aries28](#): > > Seriously, though, why couldn’t you warn your neighbors or tell them what had happened to your daughter? I mean, I assume it was a legal issue since he was also underage but what could they have done to do you if you had told the neighbors what your family went through? Maybe I’m just ignorant of the law but it seems like you should have been able to say what happened??? You are right. Legally we couldn’t say anything because the perp was a minor. If it got out that we had directly told someone what he did we would have been in deep trouble. We could have been sued or faced jail time for violating his rights as a minor. What a load… However, we did tell our friends in the neighborhood who then spread the word about what he did (but didn’t say specifically who the victim was). That got the word around to the people with young girls. It just blew my mind when I saw him hanging around with kids, especially ones that I knew had little sisters. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/31 "2010-02-11T21:30:34Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The ideas you state ARE ridiculous. The ideas the poster in question ended up stating the last time I interacted with him on the subject were not–he’d agreed that it was likely no one under age 10ish would have a shot at passing. Fine. How would that work? What kind of scientific test are you talking about? when would a child be tested? On whose authority? What if he “fails” today? Do we test him again tomorrow? The whole concept is ludicrous on its face. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/32 "2010-02-11T23:55:22Z")
> [@Claude\_Remains](#): > > On Tuba’s advise. O.K. Give it to me big boy! We are not pals. I have no intention of “giving it to you.” In the [past](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11768519&postcount=57) I’ve taken the position that name calling is the last refuge of the tired mind. (or, it now occurs to me, the feeble mind…) So, I’m not a Pit regular. I have _zero_ tolerance for the flavor of pedophile you and Cesario represent. (and whether you’re a troll or pedophile wannabe makes no difference to me) We have no shortage of garden variety idiots. But your witless, reprehensible comments warrant a special contempt. I have enough aggravation IRL than to hurl insults in the virtual world with cretins and degenerates. Your’re heading (with the other miscreant) to the only place I can tolerate you. (and that’s just barely): the ignore list. Off you go now… ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/33 "2010-02-12T01:25:31Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > What kind of scientific test are you talking about? when would a child be tested? On whose authority? What if he “fails” today? Do we test him again tomorrow? > > The whole concept is ludicrous on its face. _sigh_ I don’t want to get into the position of answering an argument that someone else made, but if it were me: 1. You’d have to have a child psychologist and an adult psychologist, or several of them preferably, work out a questionnaire that could easily IMHO include observation by a trained psych that would determine an individual’s ability to make binding decisions on themselves at an adult level–or more likely, an individual test for each “adult only” skill. 2. Test to be administered upon request of the person applying for “rights”. 3. Presumably to be voted in by whatever government as a replacement for existing age-of-majority law. 4. Then he’s presumed not able to handle whatever he was testing for. 5. There’d have to be some kind of cutoff, I’m thinking at least a month. I’ve thought the age-of-majority has been out of whack for a long time, what with different state ages of consent varying from 16-18 in this country for sexual activity, but 18 for pornography, 18 for voting and smoking, 21 for drinking, 16 for driving. The current system is, frankly, retarded. We already do a limited amount of skill-based testing for ability to handle adult responsibility in the form of driving tests, and I’m not necessarily against a lower-age cutoff below which such a test cannot be administered. The idea is simply not prima fascie ludicrous just because you happened to hear it first from a pedophile. Hell, at some point he could have just gone to Mexico and legally had sex with all the twelve-year-olds he wants to, if I remember my global law hysteria correctly. The fact the discussion is happening at all is positive. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/34 "2010-02-12T01:48:32Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I have _zero_ tolerance for the flavor of pedophile you and Cesario represent. (and whether you’re a troll or pedophile wannabe makes no difference to me) > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > And \*\*Cesario \*\*did the former. As to the latter, my only comment is that an age of consent is necessarily arbitrary and someone will always complain about it. Reminder: > [@](#): > > 1. Having reviewed Cesario’s postings and compared notes, we now realize how frequently he posts about his sexual inclinations. Our rules state, “The board is not intended to furnish you with a forum for promoting your personal agenda. We reserve the right to ask you to limit postings on a particular topic, or to refrain from posting on such topics altogether.” We’re now invoking this rule: We don’t want to see any further discussion from Cesario about pedophilia. Attempts by other users to provoke Cesario into breaking this rule, or to make comments about him to which he cannot respond, will also not be tolerated. Thank you for your cooperation. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12090763&postcount=347](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12090763&postcount=347) Please leave \*\*Cesario \*\*out of this. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/35 "2010-02-12T01:57:19Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Reminder: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12090763&postcount=347](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12090763&postcount=347) > > Please leave \*\*Cesario \*\*out of this. > > **Gfactor** > Pit Moderator I wasn’t aware of this, but will gladly comply. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/36 "2010-02-12T02:03:49Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I wasn’t aware of this, but will gladly comply. I thought that might be the case. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![FloatyGimpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/floatygimpy/32/7750_2.png) [@FloatyGimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FloatyGimpy)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/37 "2010-02-12T03:21:57Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > I wasn’t aware of this, but will gladly comply. See,\*\* not\_alice\*\*? One sentence. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/38 "2010-02-12T14:55:01Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > You are right. Legally we couldn’t say anything because the perp was a minor. If it got out that we had directly told someone what he did we would have been in deep trouble. We could have been sued or faced jail time for violating his rights as a minor. What a load… This doesn’t sound right. How can it possibly against the law to speak publicly about what somebody did to your kid, even if he was a minor? What authority forbade you from speaking out? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/39 "2010-02-12T14:59:25Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > This doesn’t sound right. How can it possibly against the law to speak publicly about what somebody did to your kid, even if he was a minor? What authority forbade you from speaking out? I know there are in fact laws that forbid revealing the names of juvenile offenders in the press, but I’m not sure if they would be worded in such a way as to make it an offense for a private person to discuss a crime they were victimized in. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527/40 "2010-02-12T15:20:52Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > I know there are in fact laws that forbid revealing the names of juvenile offenders in the press, but I’m not sure if they would be worded in such a way as to make it an offense for a private person to discuss a crime they were victimized in. Yeah, I know there are laws against the press doing that, but an individual? Especially the victim of a crime? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-and-raindog-got-a-room/528527.md?page=3)