# ME Buckner: A quiet word please. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082 "2006-02-18T13:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/1 "2006-02-18T13:18:43Z")
I refer to [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7117131&postcount=39) I disagree for the reasons stated in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7116339&postcount=31) In a simplified form: This: > [@](#): > > My, calculus is such a big word to use for an Iraq war supporter. Fools, blackguards and reprobates will remain so, the mission of this board notwithstanding. follows from this by **John Mace** : > [@](#): > > Just because \* someone \* supported the Iraq War is no reason to expect \* that person \* to support an invasion of Iran. As I and other posters pointed out, Iran has many differences from Iraq that make the calculus of war a whole different affair. _(my emphases)_ **JM** introduced a notional person, who is an Iraq war supporter. My response was descriptive of that notional person. It was neither a personal insult to **John Mace** or any other person, nor was it an _ad hominem_ argument. Look at [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7115982&postcount=20) again for confirmation. Summary: It’s a about “that person.” It’s not about an individual poster. This is the case and the grammer, despite the misunderstanding expressed by **John Mace** in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7116090&postcount=25), which frankly had me rather puzzled until I realized he had mistaken the notional person for himself. Boring administrative post. Nothing to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/2 "2006-02-18T13:36:51Z")
Posters who joined January 17, 2004 and have an username starting with an S are whiny reactionaries who enjoy being the martyred center of attention. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/3 "2006-02-18T13:40:42Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Posters who joined January 17, 2004 and have an username starting with an S are whiny reactionaries who enjoy being the martyred center of attention. Guys named "Hamlet"are fine people to accuse other people of being the martyred center of attention. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/4 "2006-02-18T15:26:08Z")
What a whiney cowardly little weasel you are. But, naw, nothing wrong with your behavior. Keep it up, full steam. Soldier on, soldier on. I’ll shed a tear when they toss you out on your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/5 "2006-02-18T18:16:02Z")
Since you felt the need to start a Pit thread to highlight the injustice of your admonishment: > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > …and I don’t appreciate being called a fool or blackguard by association. > [@Sevastopol](#): > > Reprobate’s ok then? Looks to me like you’re enjoying testing the boundaries of GD. Sorry, but I think you lose the appeal and are charged a time-out. By the way, you’re an ill-informed, bile-spewing ass. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/6 "2006-02-18T18:39:14Z")
Seems as though **Sevastopol** _can_ find his way to the Pit, after all. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/7 "2006-02-18T19:08:40Z")
Oh, Puhleeez. Notice the subject of the sentence containing the word “calculus”. The subject is “I”. “I” as in me. Hence the assumption you were referring to me, as everyone else in the thread also assumed. So, to correct your error, you do what? Apologize? No, you open a Pit thread. WTF??? ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/8 "2006-02-18T19:42:29Z")
The warning stands. You directly quoted another poster on this board using the word “calculus”; you say “calculus is such a big word to use for an Iraq war supporter” (which is already pushing it at the very least); then you follow up with “Fools, blackguards and reprobates will remain so, the mission of this board notwithstanding” which definitely puts it over the top. Not even a borderline case, really. Also, if it’s _possible_ to construe a set of words in some extremely contrived and unnatural way such that they don’t technically insult another poster, but (_sans_ lengthy explanation of the supposedly complex grammar) the most obvious interpretation which will be taken by anyone else reading the post is that you just insulted the other poster, I’m going with the reading everyone else will be giving your post. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Hypothetical Poster** _ > > > [@Other Hypothetical Poster](#): > > > > I support the President’s initiative for a War on Bad Grammer. > > My what a cretin[sup]1[/sup]. Only credulous fools could support anything as stupid as a “War on Bad Grammar”[sup]2[/sup]. And what kind of person includes a typo in the phrase “War on Bad Grammar”?[sup]3[/sup] > > [sup]1[/sup]I mean the _President_ is a cretin of course. Permissible opinion regarding a public figure who doesn’t post to the SDMB. > [sup]2[/sup]Insulting a notional random “supporter of the War on Bad Grammar”, not **Other Hypothetical Poster**. > [sup]3[/sup]Acceptable use of sarcasm in pointing out a contradiction between another poster’s stated opinions and his post. This is a message board, not a patent infringement lawsuit; the purpose of the rules is to maintain a little civility and decorum so that people can have political arguments without them turning into mindless flame wars or screaming trainwrecks, not to play “Gotcha!” with sentence structure or pronoun antecedents. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/9 "2006-02-18T21:23:40Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > This is a message board, not a patent infringement lawsuit; the purpose of the rules is to maintain a little civility and decorum so that people can have political arguments without them turning into mindless flame wars or screaming trainwrecks, not to play “Gotcha!” with sentence structure or pronoun antecedents. Well said. Very well said. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/10 "2006-02-18T22:10:34Z")
So, let me get this straight; the OP is claiming a significant distinction exists between these statements: A: “You’re a child-raper.” B: “Everyone who feels the way you do on this issue is a child-raper.” Hmmm… I expect the attempted explanation of the distinction will be entertaining, if nothing else. It may be along the lines of: > [@](#): > > The primary deficienty of fools, blackguards and reprobates is in morals. Failing intelligence is an associated disorder. …which I gather means the OP thinks it would be okay to call someone a _evil_ child-raper, but not a _stupid_ child-raper, though there is a correlation between evil and stupid, so we shouldn’t be surprised, except if someone takes offense, which would be shockingly unexpected and totally unintended. The warning was deserved. The eventual banning will be, too. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/11 "2006-02-18T23:15:21Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > The warning stands. You directly quoted another poster on this board using the word “calculus”; you say “calculus is such a big word to use for an Iraq war supporter” (which is already pushing it at the very least); then you follow up with “Fools, blackguards and reprobates will remain so, the mission of this board notwithstanding” which definitely puts it over the top. Not even a borderline case, really. No, I’m sorry but you are plainly mistaken in ordinary functional grammer. This it how it goes: 1: - There is no doubt that the subject of **John Mace’s** sentence was “someone [who] supported the Iraq war.” 2: - **John Mace** then raises the ‘calculus’ that person would use 3: - Indicating by “I” that he and others had pointed this out previously. He and you are not now in a position to claim that this “I” made him the subject, particularly as he expressly pointed out he was not an Iraq war supporter in the thread. Nor did I assume he was an Iraq war supporter in drafting the post. 4: I argued that someone who supported the Iraq war did not merit their thinking process being called ‘calculus’. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > Also, if it’s _possible_ to construe a set of words in some extremely contrived and unnatural way such that they don’t technically insult another poster, but (_sans_ lengthy explanation of the supposedly complex grammar) the most obvious interpretation which will be taken **by anyone else** reading the post is that you just insulted the other poster, I’m going with the reading everyone else will be giving your post. So do we agree you are wrong if **Captain Amazing** took my post to refer to Iraq war supporters generally, rather than **John Mace** personally: > [@](#): > > I don’t appreciate being called a fool or blackguard by association. (post 27) It is not me that has contrived the grammar unnaturally. **JM** just misread the post. > [@MEBuckner](#): > > This is a message board, not a patent infringement lawsuit; the purpose of the rules is to maintain a little civility and decorum so that people can have political arguments without them turning into mindless flame wars or screaming trainwrecks, not to play “Gotcha!” with sentence structure or pronoun antecedents. I quite agree. Sadly, it is you that has played Gotcha! I made a legitimate and arguable point which I maintain by the way. **John Mace** found an insult in it, that in the plain light of day isn’t there. That’s a long way from ‘Direct Personal Insult.’ If you are going to have a rule about ‘questioning the morals of people who advance particular positions’ say so. So I’m touchy about proper grammar, Ok. But look, I’m fair, I can cool the general tone, there was heat there which seems to me what it’s really about. Here try this: “To call an Iraq war supporter’s thinking calculus, is more dignity than it merits.” How’s that? * * * To the co-religionist detractors: Contact **DSeid** , he has worked out the relevant facts. Not at liberty to say more. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/12 "2006-02-18T23:21:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Since you felt the need to start a Pit thread to highlight the injustice of your admonishment:Looks to me like you’re enjoying testing the boundaries of GD. It’s about the grammar, no more. To re-iterate: > [@](#): > > Boring administrative post. Nothing to see here. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/13 "2006-02-18T23:30:25Z")
This didn’t come through the first 'quote" > [@MEBuckner](#): > > Originally posted by Hypothetical Poster > Quote: > Originally Posted by Other Hypothetical Poster > I support the President’s initiative for a War on Bad Grammer. > > My what a cretin1. Only credulous fools could support anything as stupid as a "War on Bad Grammar"2. And what kind of person includes a typo in the phrase “War on Bad Grammar”?3 It’s a bad analogy **MEB**. It fails at “I support.” Contrast **John Mace’s** post, where there is no mention of what he supports. A better analogy is: [quote=MEBuckner plus] Originally posted by Hypothetical Poster Quote: Originally Posted by Other Hypothetical Poster There is support the President’s initiative for a War on Bad Grammer. Pro-Grammarists believe in careful composition of their thoughts without adequate care for the casual reader. My what cretins. Only credulous fools could support anything as stupid as a “War on Bad Grammar.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/14 "2006-02-18T23:30:33Z")
See, the point is, we all know you’re actually talking about **John Mace**. Fancy grammar tricks don’t fool anyone for a second. That was a direct, pointed insult at another poster, and there’s no way you’re stupid enough to not recognize that. Thankfully, you _are_ stupid enough to think anyone would actually fall for your transparent semantic shenanigans. So we get a highly amusing pit thread that will, if we’re very lucky, end in a banning. Keep up the good work, shithead. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2006, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/15 "2006-02-18T23:36:27Z")
Vile minds will find vile thoughts, it’s true. Don’t expect that I’d join you though. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/16 "2006-02-19T00:12:44Z")
Is it just me or does this month have more than it’s fair share of idiocy? We have **Martin Hyde** defending the indefensible. **Clothahump** and **Starving Artist** as leading conspircay theorists. **pseudotriton ruber ruber** performing the same semantic juggling as **sevvy**. **Lynn** and **Tuba** having a meltdown. Did these people not get any Valentine’s cards or somethiing? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/17 "2006-02-19T00:54:58Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > Is it just me or does this month have more than it’s fair share of idiocy? And it’s the shortest month, too. The horror! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/18 "2006-02-19T01:00:20Z")
> [@rayh](#): > > **Lynn** and **Tuba** having a meltdown. > > Did these people not get any Valentine’s cards or somethiing? Really? Got a link there? ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/19 "2006-02-19T01:23:58Z")
> [@1920s Style "Death Ray"](#): > > Really? Got a link there? **Tuba** and **Lynn’s** melted down in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=358611) thread. [Here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=358860) is the pit thread about it. We also have **LonesomePolecat** losing the plot about Gore and **Starving Artist** arguing that documentaries dont exist, [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=358632&page=4) Even **Dio** has not been without his [problems.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=358846) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2006, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082/20 "2006-02-19T02:30:46Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Here try this: > > “To call an Iraq war supporter’s thinking calculus, is more dignity than it merits.” Are you really so stupid as to think that casting Pit worthy insults at _more_ people in a GD thread rather than fewer makes it okay? Eh, hopefully you are that stupid. We’ll be rid of you that much sooner. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/me-buckner-a-quiet-word-please/345082.md?page=2)