# Meal kits have a smaller carbon footprint than grocery shopping. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 23, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948 "2019-04-23T18:09:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/21 "2019-04-24T16:38:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The soil in my garden got improved by composted horse poop, which was free and which didn’t even require any car trips since we were taking our daughter to the barn anyhow. Since she quit riding I use my own compost and compost from our waste disposal company which they give out once a year. > The closest thing to fertilizer I’ve used in 15 years is Miracle-Gro. > All fruit and vegetable peels and waste go into my compost and thus back into the soil. > So people may buy fertilizer, but you don’t have to. Most barns would be thrilled at people redcing the size of their manure pile. Again, not a scalable, generalizable scenario, much like we’re not going to save the world by running our cars on used fry oil from McDonalds, even if that was something they were thrilled to get rid of at a time. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/22 "2019-04-24T17:06:16Z")
> [@](#): > > To find out, the study’s authors ordered five meals from Blue Apron and enlisted undergraduate researchers to purchase the necessary ingredients from grocery stores for the same recipes. Then they cooked both in parallel and “measured every bit of food, plastic, bits of cardboard, everything for each type of meal,” says Miller. That’s where it falls apart for me. The real measure would be the carbon footprint of the meal kit vs the meal you would have actually made yourself (or restaurant order or whatever) if you didn’t get the meal kit. It’s sort of like how CRT TV enthusiasts refute the fact that LED TVs use less electricity by pointing out most upgrades involve a larger HD TV than the CRT it replaces, which ends up using more energy. (Like for me personally, I’d bet money my 46" HD TV uses more power than the old 32" CRT it replaced.) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/23 "2019-04-24T18:10:16Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > (Like for me personally, I’d bet money my 46" HD TV uses more power than the old 32" CRT it replaced.) Unless you have a Plasma HD TV, you’re probably wrong. > **[Electricity usage of an LED, LCD, Plasma, CRT TV or Computer Display - Energy...](https://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_lcdleddisplay.htm)** > > Calculate the electricity price of an LED, LCD, Plasma CRT TV or Computer Display. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/24 "2019-04-24T19:13:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Unless you have a Plasma HD TV, you’re probably wrong. > > [Electricity usage of an LED, LCD, Plasma, CRT TV or Computer Display - Energy Use Calculator](http://energyusecalculator.com/electricity_lcdleddisplay.htm) Nice, thanks! That alleviates a very minor low-level background guilt I’ve ignored since I got the tv. It’s nice to be able to put it to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/25 "2019-04-24T19:19:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think the point is that most people don’t have backyards big enough to grow enough food, and so you have to ship in food from some larger plot somewhere. Never mind the backyard size - all the people (raises hand) who can’t garden for shit would also be suffering pretty severely. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/26 "2019-04-24T19:41:17Z")
If there were a nationwide need for the public to grow their own fruits and vegetables, the public could do it. See [Victory Gardens](https://livinghistoryfarm.org/farminginthe40s/crops_02.html) from WW2. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/27 "2019-04-24T19:43:42Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Would get the carbon footprint down in a jiffy, since there is no way it would produce enough calories. And even if you only use it to supplement your diet, it’s only going to have a smaller carbon footprint until you go off and buy fertilizer. Some of us have learned how to compost kitchen waste. It’s been decades since I bought fertilizer. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/28 "2019-04-24T21:44:13Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Irrelevant unless you can get the price far enough down to compete with grocery store prices. In this model, your own time is valued at -0-. The sun is free and water is a marginal cost. Make your own fertilizer from compost and your there. Cost of seeds \< cost of buying at the store. > [@Chronos](#): > > You don’t need to go vegan to eat only from your backyard garden. My mom grows most of her own food herself, including eggs from her chickens. Chickens produce methane. They have to go. > [@naita](#): > > Would get the carbon footprint down in a jiffy, since there is no way it would produce enough calories. And even if you only use it to supplement your diet, it’s only going to have a smaller carbon footprint until you go off and buy fertilizer. Fewer calories will reduce rampant obesity. And if a few million die worldwide because they can’t survive the transition, then so be it. The goal is to reduce carbon emissions. > [@Chronos](#): > > I think the point is that most people don’t have backyards big enough to grow enough food, and so you have to ship in food from some larger plot somewhere. Are you trying to replace all of your current calories? That’s not feasible. We will need to transition. Flower boxes for those that live in apartments, or shared garden boxes at back. > [@Aspidistra](#): > > Never mind the backyard size - all the people (raises hand) who can’t garden for shit would also be suffering pretty severely. Well you’ll either adapt or probably become a statistic that doesn’t make it. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/29 "2019-04-24T21:45:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Some of us have learned how to compost kitchen waste. It’s been decades since I bought fertilizer. Still not a solution that scales up. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/30 "2019-04-24T21:56:12Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Still not a solution that scales up. It will if it’s mandated. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/31 "2019-04-24T22:22:54Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > It will if it’s mandated. If what is mandated? Using kitchen scraps to fertilize your backyard garden only works over time if the backyard garden produces a tiny amount of your food and you turn so much of your store bought vegetables into scraps it makes up for the essential chemicals your harvest takes out of the soil. Mandate composting toilets for everyone, and you can grow a lot more, but I don’t think that’s where you were going. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/32 "2019-04-24T22:53:20Z")
You can also use landscaping/lawn waste for composting. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948/33 "2019-04-24T23:21:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You can also use landscaping/lawn waste for composting. And if you remove all the clippings the lawn will need fertilizer. TANSTAAFL Growing some of your own vegetables is great, composting is great, but in the US population it doesn’t scale up to replace a significant amount of large scale agriculture unless you pretty much have enough land to run a small farm, and we haven’t even gotten into the hours of work you have to put in if you want to have more than a token harvest, how to deal with agricultural pests and other challenges you can brush away if it’s just a small hobby. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meal-kits-have-a-smaller-carbon-footprint-than-grocery-shopping/832948.md?page=1)