# Meaning of ‘strokes’ in “different strokes” **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 12, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889 "2020-12-12T12:42:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/21 "2020-12-12T22:44:54Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I always thought it was a reference to the line about the “different drummer,” by Thoreau. The “stroke” was against the drum. Ah! Even if “different strokes” wasn’t originally a direct reference to “different drummer,” people’s familiarilty with that other phrase may have helped it to catch on. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/22 "2020-12-13T01:11:00Z")
When I first heard it as a teenager, I assumed that it was a sexual innuendo, referring to people preferring different styles of coitus. I was a little puzzled about it being used in very G rated contexts. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/23 "2020-12-13T01:54:14Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Um, is this a euphemism? Everything is a euphemism if you think about it too much. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/24 "2020-12-13T01:58:21Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > different styles of coitus Among the R-rated possibilities, you really assumed coitus? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/25 "2020-12-13T02:04:38Z")
Here’s an interesting theory. “Strokes” means ‘comforting gestures of approval’ > **[different strokes for different folks | Encyclopedia.com](https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/different-strokes-different-folks#:~:text=different%20strokes%20for%20different%20folks%20proverbial%20saying%2C%20late%2020th%20century,comforting%20gestures%20of%20app)** > > different strokes for different folks proverbial saying, late 20th century, meaning that different ways of doing something are appropriate for different people (the saying is of US origin, and strokes here means, ‘comforting gestures of approval’).... ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/26 "2020-12-13T02:23:59Z")
There are so many possible explanations out there - it seems like different theories appeal to different people. I wonder if there is an aphorism for that phenomenon? The only one I can think of is “How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?” ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/27 "2020-12-13T02:26:58Z")
It would be pretty clever if that was the intent. “Let’s use a word ambiguous enough that it really drives home the point!” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/28 "2020-12-13T02:32:20Z")
Ali said it in 1966. > **['Different strokes for different folks' - the meaning and origin of this phrase](https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/different-strokes-for-different-folks.html)** > > The meaning and origin of the phrase 'Different strokes for different folks'. So that is before Sly in 1968. The Champ for the knock out! ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/29 "2020-12-13T02:34:15Z")
Or see Post 2. 😆 Don’t worry, it happens to the best of us! ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/30 "2020-12-13T02:42:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Ali said it in 1966. In fact it refers to the wide diversity of brushstroke styles in Chinese calligraphy, it’s a translation of a Chinese proverb dating from 2700 BCE. Interestingly, the straightforward literal translation rhymes in both languages. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/31 "2020-12-13T02:42:54Z")
No, I read that. But **naita** didnt give a date. And **Exapno\_Mapcase** claimed it was from “Everyday People” by Sly and the Family Stone … 1969. So, thus I looked up the dates and Ali came two years earlier. This settled which came first. But _don’t worry, it happens to the best of us!_ 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/32 "2020-12-13T02:46:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > And **Exapno\_Mapcase** claimed it was from “Everyday People” by Sly and the Family Stone … 1969. @Exapno_Mapcase never denied that Ali originated the phrase; he just claimed that the phrase became widlely known thanks to the song. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/33 "2020-12-13T03:17:06Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But _don’t worry, it happens to the best of us!_ Yep, and not reading _all_ of a post also happens to some of us. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/34 "2020-12-13T03:21:26Z")
I did read all of it. I just wanted to quantify whether if it was Sly or Ali said it first, with actual dates. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/35 "2020-12-13T04:14:02Z")
As was already established by the link in post #2. Nobody - certainly not I - claimed that Sly said it first. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/36 "2020-12-13T11:07:11Z")
None of which invalidates the idea that it could have originated with different strikes, or “strokes” of a drumstick by that “different drummer” of the Thoreau aphorism. Even though Ali’s intent was very different from Thoreau’s, if it were street slang, it could have originally risen from the Thoreau saying, but then reinterpreted to mean what Ali used it to mean. Sayings change meaning all the time. In the thread about bullying kids with glasses, people are (mis)quoting Dorothy Parker’s “Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses,” and many are misunderstanding Parker’s original intent, which was a lamentation of what she perceived, not a dictum. Some people seem almost gleeful in calling her wrong, because times have changed, not realizing that she would probably be the most gleeful of all to see the change. But my point is, what people, the majority of people, get out of this phrase in modern times, is in a very real sense, what it means. If nearly everyone understands it that way, and there’s not a word or grammar feature one can point to, to invalidate that interpretation, than we have to accept that this is what it means now, especially since Parker is not around to defend it. The phrase “Different strokes for different folks” may have (or may not; I haven’t done the research-- it just strikes me as a too huge a coincidence to be merely random) been a take on Thoreau, but then people not familiar with Thoreau, and unable to put the phrase into context, gave it the belligerent meaning Ali gave it. But, it shifted back again, this time toward Thoreau, when it appeared in the song, which definitely is not about beating people up by tailoring your punch to your opponent. Given that “stroke” could mean a lot of things, it works well in the song. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/37 "2020-12-13T17:13:57Z")
Mike Nesmith wrote “Different Drum,” which was Linda Ronstaadt’s first hit. So a Thoreau reference in 60s popular culture is a known occrrence. He wrote the song in 1964, so it wasn’t in response to either Ali or Sly Stone. By then, of course, Thoreau’s line, " **If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer,** had been famous for a century and was commonly used as a title, both as “different drummer” and “different drum,” especially in the 1950s, when it was used by civil rights advocates. Different strokes, according to [ngrams](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=different+drummer%2Cdifferent+drum%2Cdifferent+strokes&year_start=1800&year_end=1965&corpus=26&smoothing=3#), had been a more common phrase than either up through about 1950. All of those uses were practical: different strokes of a pen or pencil, of a typewriter, of a piston, in racquet sports, golf, rowing, and swimming. Ali therefore could have picked up the phrase through black writers or through sports metaphors (or simply invented it). He was not a reader; indeed, he made literacy a cause later in life because he was dyslexic and hated books as a high school student, when he was near the bottom of his class. He may have heard others use the phrase, certainly, but it was mostly used in literary circles rather than in common speech. The sports metaphors were frequently used in instruction books. The problem there is that Google doesn’t find any uses in references to boxing. Clay was a fine high school athlete and may have played in these other sports and heard the phrase there, but no evidence exists. The larger problem is that “different” is itself an extremely common word. When put into [ngrams](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=different+drummer%2Cdifferent+drum%2Cdifferent+strokes%2C+different&year_start=1800&year_end=1965&corpus=26&smoothing=3&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdifferent%20drummer%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cdifferent%20drum%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cdifferent%20strokes%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cdifferent%3B%2Cc0), “different drum” and “different strokes” flatline compared to “different.” That two, um, different phrases both contain “different” as a modifier says virtually nothing about a connection or shared source. Sound etymology demands that the sourcing must be demonstrable. Nothing in the historical record connects Ali to Thoreau, or to any other person, place, or thing. (Sorry, Mike.) He was good with phrasemaking. Why not credit him with originality, at least at the doggerel level? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/38 "2020-12-13T17:21:02Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > He was not a reader Not a reader; but a hell of a poet. Like you, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that Ali formulated the phrase entirely on his own with no explicit outside influence. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/39 "2020-12-13T23:22:39Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Mike Nesmith wrote “Different Drum,” which was Linda Ronstaadt’s first hit. I hate that song. It doesn’t parse well. ---
**Author:** ![moes\_lotion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@moes\_lotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moes_lotion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889/40 "2020-12-14T07:10:30Z")
I thought it was about golfing… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meaning-of-strokes-in-different-strokes/927889.md?page=3)