# Meanness-free humor-does it exist, if it does, is it actually funny? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645 "2014-05-17T18:16:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/61 "2014-05-19T20:51:26Z")
> [@tapu](#): > > Ellen DeGeneres is the master of being hilarious while never being mean. Ellen’s humor has the same pain-discomfort-embarassment, etc elements as all the rest we’ve talked about. She’s a deeply kind person, there’s no darkness in her work, but the fundamental joke structures are no different. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/62 "2014-05-19T22:51:50Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Ellen’s humor has the same pain-discomfort-embarassment, etc elements as all the rest we’ve talked about. She’s a deeply kind person, there’s no darkness in her work, but the fundamental joke structures are no different. Yes, I see that. I am always astonished though at just how deeply kind she is. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/63 "2014-05-20T00:14:15Z")
[The pattern recognition theory of humor:](http://phys.org/news156761595.html) > [@](#): > > Clarke has stated before that humour is based on the surprise recognition of patterns … I think of it as a higher cognitive level of what happens when we flip on those figure ground illusions, you know the vase versus faces or old woman versus young woman ones? Those are basic perceptual surprising new pattern double takes; humor is the same at a higher cognitive level, recognizing a pattern and predicting how it continues and then recognizing that a different pattern also applies and applies somehow “better” and having to reorient the previous data. Now what does that “better” mean? Triggers off some anxiety that you can control (breaking rules or norms), or in-group identity, are common but not exclusive ones. “Meanness” as defined by the op can fit in that group but is not all that does. ---
**Author:** ![turtlescanfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@turtlescanfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turtlescanfly)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/64 "2014-05-20T00:27:02Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > (Here on the SDMB, we play a similar game, by citing relatively obscure quotes from movies or books, to see who recognizes them. Say goodnight, Gracie.) Seriously, two days and no one has given the correct response to this?? “Goodnight, Gracie!” . I thought you all were better than this;) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/65 "2014-05-20T00:31:13Z")
What’s brown and sticky? A stick How is that joke mean? It’s kind of a stretch to say that the joke is mean because we feel a sense of superiority when we get the hidden connection. The joke isn’t funny because we feel superior. The joke is funny because we get a sudden unexpected insight. The same way we feel pleasure when we’re looking for something and finally see it. Ah, there it is! Or maybe the joke isn’t funny. I find jokes of this kind endlessly funny, and the less funny they are the more I like them. ---
**Author:** ![tapu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@tapu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapu)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/66 "2014-05-20T00:39:05Z")
I know exactly what it would be like to live with you. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/67 "2014-05-20T00:56:18Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > You misunderstand me: I’m not saying that all comedy is in itself mean or angry, just that there is some element of laughing at somebody being stupid or foolish or something along those lines and Bill Cosby’s humor is very much about that. Well, that’s true, if you really stretch the definition of “mean”. But mean is the second cheapest form of humor. Cosby’s humor is not laughing at a person, it’s laughing at a situation. And ‘black humor’ is always situational not personal. Even Black Adder, which was most definitely mean and cruel and personal, was funniest when it addressed the general misuse of power rather than the personal idiocy of the powerful. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/68 "2014-05-20T01:48:58Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Ellen’s humor has the same pain-discomfort-embarassment, etc elements as all the rest we’ve talked about. She’s a deeply kind person, there’s no darkness in her work, but the fundamental joke structures are no different. Pain, discomfort, embarrassment is not the same as meanness, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/69 "2014-05-20T02:21:49Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Pain, discomfort, embarrassment is not the same as meanness, though. Right. And we’ve been expanding and clarifying beyond simple “meanness” since the OP: > [@Stoid](#): > > Calling it “meanness” is perhaps a tad bit extreme. What I mean is simply this: …_some_ element of meanness, judgment, mockery or other kinds of victimization in it. We are laughing at someone being foolish, making a mistake, getting kicked in the nuts…whatever, it involves shame, pain, stupidity of someone or something. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Other than puns, most humor depends on pain and suffering. E > > Only two types of humor are free of this: absurdist humor like Stephen Wright and certain types of thrill comedy where people do the impossible with seeming ease. > [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **Stoid** is correct, IMHO. All humor has its basis in some sort of pain or discomfort. That doesn’t mean it has to be from cruelty or sadism, but can be recognizing ‘oops’ moments together and laughing about them. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645/70 "2014-05-20T02:26:44Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Right. And we’ve been expanding and clarifying beyond simple “meanness” since the OP: Yes, I know. I’ve been following along. I was replying specifically to the comment > [@Stoid](#): > > Ellen’s humor has the same pain-discomfort-embarassment, etc elements as all the rest we’ve talked about. She’s a deeply kind person, there’s no darkness in her work, but the **fundamental joke structures are no different**. It seemed to me that the fundamental structure you were discussing, even if expanded was about meanness. If that’s not true, feel free to ignore my post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanness-free-humor-does-it-exist-if-it-does-is-it-actually-funny/688645.md?page=3)