# Meanwhile, back at the ranch... pitting the misuse of "skepticism" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777 "2007-02-26T21:36:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/101 "2007-02-28T23:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I must say I’m surprised. After [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8299722&postcount=12), I thought you were on _my_ side. [/QUOTE] Actually, unless **lowbrass** ’s post discovered you while you were not expecting to be discovered, it would be more appropriate to describe your state of mind as _astonished_. There’s a story about Noah Webster, the noted lexicographer (probably apocryphal). His wife walked in on him while he was enjoying a slap-and-tickle with a comely wench, and exclaimed, “Why, Noah. I am surprised.” Webster responded, “No Madam, _I_ am surprised. You are astonished.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/102 "2007-03-01T00:51:51Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s a cleverly conceived but poorly executed parody. [/QUOTE] Ouch! That’s harsh! No need for the lynching, dude! I think I’m going to have to stoically retire to my spartan cell (though it’s not that spartan; my roommate—_strictly platonic! She says she’s a lesbian, though I’m, um, incredulous; her tastes seem more catholic than that_—will keep me company) and begin the sisyphean task of rebuilding my lilliputian psyche. It will take a herculean effort but if I keep myself well fueled (with sandwiches, say; I’ll boycott more epicurean fare till I feel I’ve earned the right) and warm (just knitted a new cardigan!), I think I’ll be up this olympian undertaking. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/103 "2007-03-01T01:16:05Z")
**lissener** , I always assumed you were an Epicurean. 😉 But I admit that the proper usage of words is a sisyphean task. Perhaps your roommate might assist with some Sapphic verse, such as [Ar Hyd y Nos](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ar_Hyd_y_Nos)? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/104 "2007-03-01T07:18:26Z")
Well, when I’m deciding not to agree with anything, I call myself a “grouch”, but I know that’s not getting me any dictionary writing jobs. Liberal, in a perfect world you’d only have to interact with people through the moderation of your Philosophy forum. However, in the real world it’s unrealistic to expect every one else to abandon the common usage of “skeptic”. Yes, some people even bend the bounds of the common usage, but as [post=8305124]I pointed out earlier[/post], you aren’t particularly one to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/105 "2007-03-01T14:16:42Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] Yes, some people even bend the bounds of the common usage, but as [post=8305124]I pointed out earlier[/post], you aren’t particularly one to talk. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I’m aware that you keep referencing that, but I don’t argue against it because it proves my point. Each time you link it, people can see that I used the dictionary itself to show that “pretentious” means [full of pretense or pretension](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=pretentious) and that “pretense” means [pretending or feigning](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretense). Therefore, to say that someone is pretending is to say that someone is being pretentious. You don’t have to have a masters degree in logic to be familiar with the transitive property of implication. It’s just like the one arithmetic uses for equality. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/106 "2007-03-01T14:34:59Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Yeah, I’m aware that you keep referencing that, but I don’t argue against it because it proves my point. Each time you link it, people can see that I used the dictionary itself to show that “pretentious” means [full of pretense or pretension](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=pretentious) and that “pretense” means [pretending or feigning](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretense). Therefore, to say that someone is pretending is to say that someone is being pretentious. You don’t have to have a masters degree in logic to be familiar with the transitive property of implication. It’s just like the one arithmetic uses for equality. [/QUOTE] Are you tone-deaf? Pretentious has entirely different connotations than pretending. It’s not a straight-line substitution. Really, **Liberal** , sometimes I _do_ wonder if we’re speaking the same language. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/107 "2007-03-01T15:23:30Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Pretentious has entirely different connotations than pretending. [/QUOTE] If that dictionary is unacceptable, is American Heritage okay? Pretentious: “claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified”; i.e., pretending to be something you aren’t. (No need to link; nobody clicks them anyway.) Also, “v. intr. To make pretensions: _pretends to gourmet tastes_.” ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/108 "2007-03-01T15:26:19Z")
[QUOTE=lowbrass] Uh, yeah - that’s kind of the idea I was going for. [/QUOTE] I know; I was just being a bit silly, as I don’t feel particularly passionate about this issue, nor do I harbor the desire for angry debate that this thread seems to be bringing out in people. [QUOTE=lissener] Ouch! That’s harsh! No need for the lynching, dude! I think I’m going to have to stoically retire to my spartan cell (though it’s not that spartan; my roommate—_strictly platonic! She says she’s a lesbian, though I’m, um, incredulous; her tastes seem more catholic than that_—will keep me company) and begin the sisyphean task of rebuilding my lilliputian psyche. It will take a herculean effort but if I keep myself well fueled (with sandwiches, say; I’ll boycott more epicurean fare till I feel I’ve earned the right) and warm (just knitted a new cardigan!), I think I’ll be up this olympian undertaking. [/QUOTE] Hah! Now that one’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/109 "2007-03-01T15:31:30Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] people can see that I used the dictionary itself to show that “pretentious” means full of pretense or pretension [/QUOTE] No! Really? Who’da thunk it. [QUOTE=Liberal] Therefore, to say that someone is pretending is to say that someone is being pretentious. [/QUOTE] “Pretentious”, _as you well know_, carries more than just a strict dictionary drilldown meaning. Let’s see if we can get at the problem. Answer me one simple question, yes/no answer. Are a group of kids playing Cowboys and Indians\* pretentious? - Do kids still play that? Or Cops and Robbers? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/110 "2007-03-01T16:29:37Z")
Personally I’ve always been too insouciant to use words like cromulant ,except maybe when I’m feeling particulary ebullient. But actually I do see Libs point about Homophobia technically meaning a hatred of man rather then homosexuals… ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/111 "2007-03-01T17:56:48Z")
[QUOTE=MrDibble] Are a group of kids playing Cowboys and Indians\* pretentious? [/QUOTE] I’m afraid you’re asking the wrong guy that question, Kimo Sabe. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/112 "2007-03-01T18:04:40Z")
In other news, it has come to my attention that “literally” may now mean “figuratively”. I officially give up. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/113 "2007-03-01T18:07:33Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I officially give up. [/QUOTE] And by “officially” you mean … ? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/114 "2007-03-01T18:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] In other news, it has come to my attention that “literally” may now mean “figuratively”. I officially give up. [/QUOTE] Your last sentence contains a dangling preposition. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/115 "2007-03-01T18:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] In other news, it has come to my attention that “literally” may now mean “figuratively”. [/QUOTE] Only when used ironically and idiomatically. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/116 "2007-03-01T18:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] i.e., pretending to be something you aren’t. [/QUOTE] Not just pretending to be something you aren’t. **Pretending to be something greater than you are.** One can pretend without being pretentious. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/117 "2007-03-01T18:25:40Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Yeah, I’m aware that you keep referencing that, but I don’t argue against it because it proves my point. Each time you link it, people can see that I used the dictionary itself to show that “pretentious” means [full of pretense or pretension](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=pretentious) and that “pretense” means [pretending or feigning](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pretense). Therefore, to say that someone is pretending is to say that someone is being pretentious. You don’t have to have a masters degree in logic to be familiar with the transitive property of implication. It’s just like the one arithmetic uses for equality. [/QUOTE] Unfortunetly, language is neither mathematical, nor particularly logical. You’re totally wrong on this one, **Lib**. There’s a substantial difference between saying someone is pretending, and saying someone is pretentious. Pretentious carries heavy connotations of egoism and unearned superiority. It is always a negative. Pretending is more akin to play acting, and carries no particular ethical or moral connotation. At worst, it connotes a mild childishness. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/118 "2007-03-01T18:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Only when used ironically and idiomatically. [/QUOTE] Not according to [Gene Weingarten in the Washington Post](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription)… I found this quote from a man who had just witnessed privation in Africa: “I was literally torn apart.” He was literally torn apart? As by lions? Yes, this, too, is now accepted. It’s in [Webster’s] dictionary. “Literally” may now be used to mean “figuratively”, which is roughly as accurate as if “happy” were defined as “sad.” …and not according to [this usage note](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literally): Since the early 20th century, literally has been widely used as an intensifier meaning “in effect, virtually,” a sense that contradicts the earlier meaning “actually, without exaggeration”: _The senator was literally buried alive in the Iowa primaries_. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/119 "2007-03-01T18:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Not just pretending to be something you aren’t. **Pretending to be something greater than you are.** One can pretend without being pretentious. [/QUOTE] Sure. So what? One can doubt without being skeptical, but who cares. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2007, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777/120 "2007-03-01T18:41:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Not according to [Gene Weingarten in the Washington Post](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_prescription)… I found this quote from a man who had just witnessed privation in Africa: “I was literally torn apart.” He was literally torn apart? As by lions? Yes, this, too, is now accepted. It’s in [Webster’s] dictionary. “Literally” may now be used to mean “figuratively”, which is roughly as accurate as if “happy” were defined as “sad.” …and not according to [this usage note](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literally): Since the early 20th century, literally has been widely used as an intensifier meaning “in effect, virtually,” a sense that contradicts the earlier meaning “actually, without exaggeration”: _The senator was literally buried alive in the Iowa primaries_. [/QUOTE] Sounds to me like the dictionary is recording an idiomatic usage, which is what good dictionaries do. Quite obviously, literally “literally” does not mean “figuratively.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch-pitting-the-misuse-of-skepticism/393777.md?page=7)