# Mechanisms in books you hate **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 24, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239 "2012-07-24T14:39:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/41 "2012-07-24T21:41:04Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I understand that words in foreign languages are traditionally italicized in fantasy/science fiction: ‘Thank you, but I don’t participate in _rishathra._’ This is generally considered a shorthand for “here’s a foreign word that we all know what it means, and I’m just going to use the foreign word.” > > However, when two people are stated as speaking _in the foreign language_ and you still use the foreign word, and italicize it, suddenly, to me, it means “I can’t be arsed to come up with a translation for this word.” > > Get 'er done. I’ve occasionally run across novels where the author leaves large chunks of foreign text untranslated. I’m not talking about commonly understood foreign phrases like “deja vu” or “Schadenfreude,” I’m talking entire sentences in a dialogue between characters. This has never made any sense to me. The book is obviously aimed at English speakers, so do they want their English-speaking readers to understand everything that’s going on or not? I’m not bothered by present tense, but if it’s written in second person I’m not going past the first sentence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/42 "2012-07-24T21:48:29Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Speaking of Stephenson, his book _Anathem_ was horrible in so many ways, so even the little things got to me. > > Especially the word substitution. Picking out some from Wikipedia: > > avout: a devout person, get it? > fraa: a male monk, like fra/friar, > suur: a nun, like soro(ity)/sister. > > He even had a odd word for rabbit. > > But the thing was in English, lots of technical and whatnot English terms. Why are a few dozen things subbed? It made reading the novel harder, took me out of it, etc. For no good reason at all. > > Dear Authors: Don’t invent a new word for something that already exists in English. It makes you sound like a emo teenager hack and reduces the enjoyment of the book. What you’re describing is [an ancient and respectable SF tradition,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp) you know. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/43 "2012-07-24T21:54:28Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > _Moby Dick_ famously has about ten times more text on Melville’s description of the whaling industry then about Ahab and Ishmael. Seems to be a common structure for mid-19th century novels. I kinda like it, but mileage obviously varies. It’s my understanding that a lot of authors were paid by the word in those days. Invented languages are my personal pet peeve in fantasy and sci-fi books. Tolkien did it and that was the last time it has EVER been done well - 60 years worth of authors since then have felt compelled to invent their own language, whether or not it makes sense, and pepper their character’s dialogue with it just because it’s a fantasy novel and that’s what’s supposed to be done. Even Frank Herbert realized he’d gone so over the top with it that he stuck a massive glossary in the back of Dune, and without it i’d have had absolutely no idea what was going on the entire book. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/44 "2012-07-24T21:58:57Z")
On the subject of foreign language, when I read Harry Turtledove’s Worldwar series and the current POV was from a German or Russian, he would frequently write dialogue out as: “I’m going to check on the _panzer_ – tanks.” “_Spasebo_. Thank you.” I read the series when I was much younger, so at the time I thought that the characters were literally saying the same thing twice and it baffled me. I think I chalked it up to character quirks at the time, but it wasn’t until later that I realized they were merely meant to be in-text translations. It’s kind of helpful, but at the same time it just comes off as redundant. Either have it all in English or just leave the foreign word untranslated. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/45 "2012-07-24T22:01:28Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > I’ve occasionally run across novels where the author leaves large chunks of foreign text untranslated. I’m not talking about commonly understood foreign phrases like “deja vu” or “Schadenfreude,” I’m talking entire sentences in a dialogue between characters. This has never made any sense to me. The book is obviously aimed at English speakers, so do they want their English-speaking readers to understand everything that’s going on or not? I’ve seen that in older books where it appears the author’s assumption is that if you are capable of reading their book, you have a working knowledge of at least Latin and French and maybe Greek. Luckily, the character is usually quoting a famous passage so I can easily google a translation. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/46 "2012-07-24T22:22:45Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > On the subject of foreign language, when I read Harry Turtledove’s Worldwar series and the current POV was from a German or Russian, he would frequently write dialogue out as: > > “I’m going to check on the _panzer_ – tanks.” > “_Spasebo_. Thank you.” Shouldn’t the second guy have said: “_Пожалуйста_. You’re welcome.” ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/47 "2012-07-24T23:20:25Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Shouldn’t the second guy have said: > > “_Пожалуйста_. You’re welcome.” Let’s not go that far now, _tovarisch_, my friend. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/48 "2012-07-25T00:37:13Z")
> [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > I can’t stand novels written in the present tense. Just so so annoying. I will jist put any book back on the shelf if it’s written this way. > This is more and more common lately, ESP in YA literature. I struggled through Hunger Games partly for this reason. Wasn’t worth the effort ( just my opinion). I’ve been told that the YA audience likes the present tense writing better, that it fits closer with how they think . That seems ridiculous to me. I dislike present-tense novels, too. It seems pretentious rather than imparting a sense of immediacy, and throws me right out of the story. Only once have I seen it done well enough that I read the work…and no, I don’t remember what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/49 "2012-07-25T00:39:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What you’re describing is [an ancient and respectable SF tradition,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp) you know. It can be so wonderful when done well, and so annoying when done poorly. Heinlein’s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best example I’ve read of conveying a culture through language that the people of Luna developed.. ---
**Author:** ![Tapiotar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3be4f8/32.png) [@Tapiotar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapiotar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/50 "2012-07-25T00:47:57Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > That is annoying, and I’ve seen it several times in new books lately. I don’t know if it’s getting more common or if it’s just a coincidence. > . I wonder if those books are translations? I’ve a raft of Finnish and some Swedish novels that don’t use quotation marks. I don’t like that, either. Causes confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/51 "2012-07-25T02:22:34Z")
I’m finding that I have less and less patience when stories are told in multiple timelines, switching back and forward through time rather than just presenting events in chronological order. It’s another one that can be great when done right, but is often just a cheap gimmick. Perhaps it’s just because I have less brainpower to devote to reading these days. > [@well\_he\_s\_back](#): > > Thought of another one - I hate ridiculous punctuation in names.in fantasy novels. Such a turn off As long as we’re talking about Stephenson (Anathem was GREAT, by the way), in REAMDE, his most recent book, part of the plot revolves around a WoW-style fantasy game. Partway through the design process, they got in an actual linguist to work on the fictional languages, and he ripped apart the casual way the earlier team had been flinging around apostrophes. The resulting punctuation revamp was dubbed the Apostropocolyps. Or something to that effect. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/52 "2012-07-25T03:44:39Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > It can be so wonderful when done well, and so annoying when done poorly. Heinlein’s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the best example I’ve read of conveying a culture through language that the people of Luna developed.. What? It was just pared-down English with some Russian loanwords. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/53 "2012-07-25T03:50:47Z")
And Anthony Burgess did that **way** better in _A Clockwork Orange._ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/54 "2012-07-25T04:22:44Z")
Things already mentioned: 1. Dialects. Couldn’t stand them in _Huckleberry Finn_ either. I don’t care if Twain is considered America’s Greatest Writer or whatever, any book that spells the same word 8 different ways is just being a dick. 2. Names you cannot pronounce. I have no problem if this is a novel about Bulgarian spies meeting with the Chinese Mafia (if there is such a thing), but a science fiction novel where critical characters have names like “Jflk!tk!” and “Grunxtrpl” should have been refused with the rejection letter wrapped around a rock and thrown in the authors bedroom window at 2 in the morning. 3. World building. I have no idea why, but if you make a mistake in your world building, _I will catch it_. Drives me bonkers when done wrong, right, [Dan Simmons](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=618787)? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/55 "2012-07-25T14:12:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And Anthony Burgess did that **way** better in _A Clockwork Orange._ It was needed in _CO_, the street thugs needed their own argot as part of their way of distinguishing themselves from the mainstream. If Alex and his droogs _didn’t_ use their own slang words, _that_ would have seemed odd. (Plus it also helped that I knew some Russian, so my view might be a big different from others.) And thanks for the earlier link, **BrainGlutton** , I clicked on it of course. But then I stopped at just that page. I swear. Nope, no further clicking. None at all. I must be getting better. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/56 "2012-07-25T14:26:30Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > This is a _brilliant_ device in a short story…it allows you to add a lot of suspense, and disguise the gender or even the species of the writer. > > It’s not so good in a novel, though occasionally I have seen it done right. Daphne du Maurier does it correctly in _Rebecca_, but that’s the only place I’ve seen it done that well. There’s a sequel by Susan Hill Long called _Mrs. de Winter_ with the same trick of not revealing the narrator’s name, but it just doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/57 "2012-07-25T14:50:03Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > Daphne du Maurier does it correctly in _Rebecca_, but that’s the only place I’ve seen it done that well. There’s a sequel by Susan Hill Long called _Mrs. de Winter_ with the same trick of not revealing the narrator’s name, but it just doesn’t work. Oh yes, it’s brilliant in that book, and I was thinking of the short story by Asimov in which he did it wonderfully, too. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/58 "2012-07-25T14:55:21Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Oh god…don’t ever read Hunchback of Notre Dame. The whole Esmeralda/Quasimodo plot is regularly hijacked for discussions of the Cathedral, and architecture, and ugh! It’s pretty standard for all of Hugo’s work. Les Miserables could have been a very different and very boring musical if they picked the chapters about Waterloo and French Politics instead of the ones about Valjean, Cosette, et al to adapt. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/59 "2012-08-08T13:56:50Z")
I also can’t stand switching timelines. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2012, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239/60 "2012-08-08T15:04:19Z")
Dang, I wish I still had the story…there was a short story I read some time ago by Craig Shaw Gardner in which the protagonists meet someone (a wizard, I think) whose name is along the lines of **X’q’z’f’d** , which impresses them mightily, as someone with so many apostrophes in his name must be very powerful indeed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mechanisms-in-books-you-hate/629239.md?page=4)