# Meddling religious fanatics -- Dune or Star Wars? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 4, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857 "2009-07-04T00:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/1 "2009-07-04T00:17:22Z")
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, the Republic has stumbled across the planet of Dune. The Bene Gesserit have spent aeons meddling in the affairs of humanity to bring about the Kwisatz Haderach. Now they encounter the Jedi Council, an equally intrusive and meddling organization of religious fanatics. Naturally both groups are instantly hostile to each other, each seeing the other as a threat to its own secretive skullduggery and iron-fisted control of humanity. On one side: One hundred Bene Gesserit Reverend mothers, armed with lasguns and kris knives, and trained in both prana-bindu and Voice. On the other: One hundred Jedi Knights, armed with blasters and light sabers, and trained in both martial arts and the Force. The Bene Gesserit have a cunning and ruthlessness the Jedi lack; on the other hand, the Jedi have Force powers which extend well beyond the simple “Jedi mind trick” range of Voice. When the dust, blood, and flying kidneys settle, which side walks away from this confrontation to continue their meddling unhindered? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/2 "2009-07-04T00:24:07Z")
On one side, you have soldiers equipped with shields that cause atomic explosions if you shoot them with a laser. On the other side, you have guys with laser swords. I’m not seeing a winner in this fight. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/3 "2009-07-04T00:58:46Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > On one side, you have soldiers equipped with shields that cause atomic explosions if you shoot them with a laser. > > On the other side, you have guys with laser swords. There’s no reason to think that all directed energy devices interact with shields the same way, and the Bene Gesserit don’t have shields with them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/4 "2009-07-04T01:14:03Z")
I’m thinking a bunch of Bene Gesserits seduce a bunch of Jedis, get pregnant with kids who can now use the force while being trained as Bene Gesserits. In a couple generations the Jedi are in trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/5 "2009-07-04T02:49:58Z")
My money’s on the Jedi. They can deflect the lasgun bolts, use Force telekinesis to bash the BG together, then close and slice 'em up with their lightsabers. ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/6 "2009-07-04T04:30:14Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’m thinking a bunch of Bene Gesserits seduce a bunch of Jedis, get pregnant with kids who can now use the force while being trained as Bene Gesserits. In a couple generations the Jedi are in trouble. That was my thought too. The Bene Gesserit never use direct confrontation if it can be avoided. If the Jedi are smart, they’ll press an attack and probably win. The witches, on the other hand, are more likely to loosen their robes and start giving Master Yoda a come-hither look. And, as you say, in a couple of generations you suddenly have Force-using Bene Gesserit who make the Sith look like naughty schoolkids. George Lucas just doesn’t have the subtlety to deal with Herbert – Tatooine “Dune” pastiche notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/7 "2009-07-04T04:33:05Z")
With the subtle ways the Bene Geserit work, would the Jedi even be aware of their existence? ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/8 "2009-07-04T04:40:36Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > With the subtle ways the Bene Geserit work, would the Jedi even be aware of their existence? Leto II had no difficulty controlling the Bene Gesserit with prescience, so let’s give the Jedi Council some credit; Force senses are probably similar if not quite as powerful. They’d certainly know something was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/9 "2009-07-05T08:46:34Z")
How would [Jedi droids](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Iron_Knight) figure into all of this? (Besides another holy war?) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/10 "2009-07-05T10:52:13Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > Leto II had no difficulty controlling the Bene Gesserit with prescience, so let’s give the Jedi Council some credit; Force senses are probably similar if not quite as powerful. They’d certainly know something was going on. True, but the Leto was a black belt in “wheels inside wheels”. For all their wisdom, the Jedis are surprisingly inept at dealing with betrayals and generic intrigue. Their vaunted strategy skills appear to be mainly focused on the battlefield. I mean, the Emperor wasn’t exactly subtle in his manipulations, and look how badly he mangled them. Against 100 Reverend Mothers, all craftier and sneakier than the other ? And none of them giving out a whiff of the Dark Side as a clue-by-four that they’re up to no good ? The Jedi would start killing each other at the drop of a robe 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/11 "2009-07-05T16:00:01Z")
The OP is about an actual battle. For the reasons I stated earlier, I think the Jedi would win. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/12 "2009-07-06T18:14:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > True, but the Leto was a black belt in “wheels inside wheels”. For all their wisdom, the Jedis are surprisingly inept at dealing with betrayals and generic intrigue. I first read that as “genetic intrigue”. 😃 The Bene Gesserit and the Jedi would not fight each other directly. Both of their doctrines place diplomacy above conflict. The BGs are used to working within someone else’s power structure, so they would allow the Jedi Council (or the Empire later) to do the drudge work of ruling while they manipulate behind the scenes. The exact goals of the BG would depend on how they react to aliens and droids. I’m not sure if aliens would pass the “human” test, or would be treated as clever animals. Aliens might be tolerable as long as they don’t contaminate the human bloodlines. Droids obviously breach the commandments of the Butlerian Jihad, but the BG might be able to tolerate their existence due to the abject slavery droids seem to be subjected to. The big thing is the midichlorians. Once the BG find out about them, they will become the number one factor in their breeding charts. If I wanted to be completely heretical, I’d suggest that it was midichlorians all along that the BG were trying to maximize in their Kwisatz Haderach. As for a one-on-one pit fight to the death between a BG and a Jedi, I think the safe assumption is that the Voice won’t work on the Jedi and Prana-Bindu mastery won’t stop a light sabre. The better answer is the BG won’t let herself get into a dead-end situation like an open fight with a Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/13 "2009-07-06T18:30:02Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > As for a one-on-one pit fight to the death between a BG and a Jedi, I think the safe assumption is that the Voice won’t work on the Jedi and Prana-Bindu mastery won’t stop a light sabre. I was wondering about a one-on-one caged death match. It doesn’t fit the OP, but it’s still fun to think about. I think it comes down to Voice. Any physical attack a BG throws at a Jedi will probably be sensed, and parried (although obviously Jedis can be killed, so I suppose if you’re quick enough). A BG couldn’t dodge a light saber all day, nor avoid a force push/choke, etc. It’s safe to say Force persuasion only works on the dimwitted, so that’s right out against a BG. But, Jedis have never encountered Voice, and we don’t know if they actually can resist that. Remember Paul was trained in, and against the Voice and still couldn’t completely resist a Reverend Mother. All it would take is a moment’s hesitation on the Jedi’s part, and the fight could be over. I think a Jedi _could_ be taken by surprise by Voice. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/14 "2009-07-06T19:48:01Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > I first read that as “genetic intrigue”. 😃 That’s a fairly decent capsule description of the _Dune_ series. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/meddling-religious-fanatics-dune-or-star-wars/501857/15 "2009-07-06T20:01:39Z")
Remember that Force precognition can be blinded by the Dark Side (that’s why Order 66, or whatever it was called, went undetected). I think it’s probably an open question as to whether the Bene Gesserit’s abilities could do the same.