# Median age of ghosts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 29, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002 "2018-06-29T16:54:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/1 "2018-06-29T16:54:03Z")
As I understand it, roughly 1/3rd of fetuses never make it past the 1st term and through human history about 30% of children died before the age of 5. Given that this ignores the death rates of 2nd and 3rd term fetuses and we have already concluded that over 50% of humans died before age 5 in history, we would expect the median ghost sighting to be of children under 5 and a significant percentage of those would be fetuses - presuming the soul enters the human body at conception. My understanding is that most ghost sightings follow the same general demographics of born humans in terms of age (feel free to correct me, if that is not the case). Based on this, the indication would be that ensoulment actually occurs at birth. Conclusion: The soul does not enter the body at conception and likely enters it at or near to the time of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/2 "2018-06-29T17:00:53Z")
Most ghosts sightings tend to be of adults, mostly who died of violent deaths. As you said, in historical terms most people died either in miscarriage or during childhood. Having said that, only about 100 billion homo sapiens have ever lived. And many of them have only lived since the agricultural revolution. Hence nobody sees ghosts of hunter gatherers, since they were a small % of people who lived. This was always my main complaint against the concept of ‘we exist on earth to learn lessons’. When you consider how many people die in the womb or die before age 5, that is a pretty shitty way to 'learn lessons. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/3 "2018-06-29T17:41:32Z")
And why do ghosts wear clothes? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/4 "2018-06-29T17:56:23Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Most ghosts sightings tend to be of adults, mostly who died of violent deaths. It looks like most homicide victims are male (perhaps around 75%). Assuming that to be true through history, and that violence in general being a cause of enghostment, then I think we would expect most ghosts to be male and probably a significant amount of them to be soldiers. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/5 "2018-06-29T18:00:55Z")
Your OP seems to be assuming that all humans who die become ghosts, or at least that ghosts are a representative sample. I do not think this is a safe assumption, even if you’re assuming (if only for the sake of argument) that ghosts of some sort do in fact exist. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/6 "2018-06-29T18:05:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Your OP seems to be assuming that all humans who die become ghosts, or at least that ghosts are a representative sample. I do not think this is a safe assumption, even if you’re assuming (if only for the sake of argument) that ghosts of some sort do in fact exist. I agree. If you assume ghosts exist, a common idea about them is they remain here in the world because they have unresolved issues from their lifetime. What unresolved issues is a fetus going to have? Not being born? If death alone was enough to cause a ghost, then everybody who died would become a ghost. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/7 "2018-06-29T18:11:06Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > And why do ghosts wear clothes? Here’s another ghost mystery: Why did Hamlet says that whatever lies after death was an _“undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns”_? Hamlet knew that people could return from after death; he had seen and spoken to his father’s ghost in the first act. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/8 "2018-06-29T18:13:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s another ghost mystery: Why did Hamlet says that whatever lies after death was an _“undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns”_? Hamlet knew that people could return from after death; he had seen and spoken to his father’s ghost in the first act. Hamlet was crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/9 "2018-06-29T19:48:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. If you assume ghosts exist, a common idea about them is they remain here in the world because they have unresolved issues from their lifetime. What unresolved issues is a fetus going to have? Not being born? If death alone was enough to cause a ghost, then everybody who died would become a ghost. So, here on American soil, we should expect that the majority of ghosts would be an adult Native American? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/10 "2018-06-29T20:35:50Z")
What does a ghost fetus look like? Perhaps ghosts take the forms they remember they had in life. Since fetuses have no memories, ghost fetuses are either nebulous or invisible. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/11 "2018-06-29T20:36:46Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Conclusion: The soul does not enter the body at conception and likely enters it at or near to the time of birth. Yeah, I’m sure THAT’s the takeaway you should be getting from this. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/12 "2018-06-29T20:46:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > What does a ghost fetus look like? During the first term, I’d venture to guess it would look something like a fleshy magatama. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/13 "2018-06-29T20:54:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s another ghost mystery: Why did Hamlet says that whatever lies after death was an _“undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns”_? Hamlet knew that people could return from after death; he had seen and spoken to his father’s ghost in the first act. In this context, “return” means “come back to life.” Hamlet’s father is still dead, even if he is a ghost. The significance of that line is that Hamlet’s paralyzed by indecision because he can’t figure out if revenging his father is a moral act or not, and he’s afraid for his immortal soul if he’s wrong. If death was a thing you could just come back from, like going to France, it wouldn’t be a big deal, but its permanent, and despite the occasional ghost siting, nobody really knows what it’s like over there. Nobody’s coming back with holiday snaps and long boring stories about waiting in line at Peter’s Gate. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/14 "2018-06-29T21:09:01Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In this context, “return” means “come back to life.” Hamlet’s father is still dead, even if he is a ghost. The significance of that line is that Hamlet’s paralyzed by indecision because he can’t figure out if revenging his father is a moral act or not, and he’s afraid for his immortal soul if he’s wrong. If death was a thing you could just come back from, like going to France, it wouldn’t be a big deal, but its permanent, and despite the occasional ghost siting, nobody really knows what it’s like over there. Nobody’s coming back with holiday snaps and long boring stories about waiting in line at Peter’s Gate. I can’t see that. > [@](#): > > For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, > Th’ oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely, > The pangs of despised love, the law’s delay, > The insolence of office, and the spurns > That patient merit of th’ unworthy takes, > When he himself might his quietus make > With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear, > To grunt and sweat under a weary life, > But that the dread of something after death, > The undiscovered country from whose bourn > No traveler returns, puzzles the will > And makes us rather bear those ills we have > Than fly to others that we know not of? > Thus conscience does make cowards of us all, > And thus the native hue of resolution > Is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought, > And enterprises of great pith and moment > With this regard their currents turn awry, > And lose the name of action. Hamlet isn’t saying people who die don’t come back to life. He’s saying that what lies beyond death is a complete unknown; that we have no information about it because nobody has ever returned from after death. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/15 "2018-06-29T21:17:45Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > And why do ghosts wear clothes? I believe they wear the clothes that they wore at the time of their deaths. At least that’s what movies and TV taught me. _shrugs_ ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/16 "2018-06-29T22:15:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s another ghost mystery: Why did Hamlet says that whatever lies after death was an _“undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns”_? Hamlet knew that people could return from after death; he had seen and spoken to his father’s ghost in the first act. Within the context of the play, is a ghost a part of a person that returns from death, or is it a part that hasn’t “crossed over”? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/17 "2018-06-29T22:41:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s another ghost mystery: Why did Hamlet says that whatever lies after death was an _“undiscovered country from whose bourn no traveler returns”_? Hamlet knew that people could return from after death; he had seen and spoken to his father’s ghost in the first act. For one thing, he wasn’t sure it _was_ in fact his father’s ghost: > [@Hamlet: Act 2](#): > > The spirit that I have seen > May be the devil: and the devil hath power > To assume a pleasing shape ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/18 "2018-06-30T19:23:51Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > For one thing, he wasn’t sure it _was_ in fact his father’s ghost: I wrote an essay in high school English arguing that it definitely was not his father’s ghost. I referenced the Catholic catechism (due to the reference to purgatory), as well as those statements about no one coming back from death. I also referenced what his father asked him to do, which wouldn’t make sense for someone in purgatory. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/19 "2018-06-30T23:56:57Z")
The vast majority of miscarriages happen shortly after implantation. At that point they’re only a few cells, and hardly bigger than the period at the end of this sentence. We could be totally surrounded by embryotic ghosts and mistake them for dust motes. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002/20 "2018-07-01T00:10:20Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > fleshy magatama. Dibs on the porn name. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-age-of-ghosts/817002.md?page=2)