# Median income and standard of living in your country, compared to USA? How do you feel about that? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 9, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227 "2019-02-09T15:45:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/21 "2019-02-09T22:15:30Z")
> [@Isosleepy](#): > > I have lived and worked in both the Netherlands and the US. My experience with the Netherlands is now nearly 3 decades old, and so suspect. That said: > …in-state tuition at a State school can be as low as $16k, the moment you want to look outside that pool, state schools start costing in the low 50’s. > Meaning getting your kids through college can cost between 60 and 300,000. Add books, “fees”, a place to live and add another 40-60,000 per college education. > > …While in Holland, pensions from work are still pretty common. Social security is meant to supplement retirement income. Living off of it is possible for some people in some areas, but it is not comparable to living off AOW in the Netherlands. > > I have wondered: housing prices in the Netherlands tend to approach 300k Euro on average now. With the stricter mortgage rules, how do people pay for those with an average income of 37k Euro? You’re right, most Dutch jobs, however short they were, offer some retirement pension benefit. That supplements the 1200 euro’s AOW a couple gets a month. Some quick notes/answers: When I went to college in the 90’s, I paid 2000 tuition a year. This was standard, medical school was a little more. There is hardly a difference between top-tier and other schools, they’re all good enough and none of them "sound better"on a resume, the way Ivy League schools do in the US. I got student fee of about 600 guilders a month, and borrowed another 400 a month at a below-market interest. My dad paid for that. So I graduated without student debt. The situation is now worse, but I don’t know how much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/22 "2019-02-09T22:26:06Z")
One site claims that median income in Canada is CAD70,000, about USD50,000. There is a small health tax added and a small prescription added. But no copay on health care and generally about 20% on drugs (it varies; no idea why). But that is relatively comfortable given that health care cannot wipe you out. It is one of the two big things keeping me in Canada (orange ogre being the other). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/23 "2019-02-09T22:40:43Z")
Here’s an article from HuffPost which confirms **Hari’s** numbers for Canada. It makes the point that there is tremendous variation in Canada in how much the richest are making (i.e. - what does it take to be in the top 1% will vary regionally), but a quick skim shows more consistency in what an individual has to earn to be in the top 20% in their area: around $50,000 to $70,000. > **[Here's What You Have To Earn To Be In The 1% Across Canada](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/top-one-per-cent-canada_n_610874f5e4b0497e67026aae?ec_carp=4654062877647270391)** > > It takes nearly three times as much to be rich in Calgary as it does in the Niagara region. No premiums for health insurance, generally, and no co-pays or deductibles. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/24 "2019-02-09T22:50:53Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Maastricht, does Netherlands have single-payer health insurance, or do you have a variety of health insurers to chose among? For Canada, it’s a single-payer in each province and territory, so 13 nationally, but you’re only in the one you live in, so effectively single-payer.\* Your health card gives you insurance anywhere in Canada, and there’s no such thing as “in network” or “out of network”: all of Canada is “in network.” If I get sick or hurt in Toronto or Tuktoyaktuk, or any place in between, I’m covered. - There is one other payer: Workers’ Comp. if you get injured on the job, Workers’ Comp pays for it. However, that’s an accounting thing between Workers’ Comp and the provincial Medicare system. Doesn’t affect which doctor or hospital you go to. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/25 "2019-02-09T23:06:37Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > health care is far more expensive here, and you’re never really safe on that front. Even when you’re elderly you could end up in a nursing home and those aren’t covered by medicare. > > I’d trade a lower standard of living for more job security and reliable health care. ^ Me, too. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/26 "2019-02-09T23:10:31Z")
From previous discussions, I’d say we have more job security in Canada, in the sense that if your employer wants to fire you without cause, the employer has to pay out a severance amount, set by statute, based on how long you’ve worked for the employer. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2019, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/27 "2019-02-09T23:50:08Z")
Maastricht, you should have mentioned in your college bit that you are talking about guilders. Tuition reached the 2000 euro line just a couple of years ago. Also, with the studiefinanciering (a gift really) and free public transport, you actually received quite a bit more than you paid on an annual basis. I’m actually in a fairly similar situation to you. I make a bit more (but not that much) and have slightly lower mortgage payments. You probably forgot to mention you get almost an extra salary every May (and in some cases December). In my case you could almost say I get 14 salaries a year. Also don’t forget that your employer pays about 50% more than what you see as your gross pay on your salary slip; pensions and safety nets for unemployment or sickness. About getting a mortgage: you can borrow 100% of the value of the house (it has been going down, you could borrow more before). So you really don’t have to save up more than what you need for realtors, notaries, etc. From what I’ve read about the US situation, the biggest positive thing here is that almost everything is easy. I’ve hardly used any medical services the last decade, but it always has been easy and I’ve never had to do more than just show my insurance card (if that). Also in other EU countries btw. You have to be insured (as was mentioned) and every year the insurers set new prices and adjust packages with additional care… changing is a breeze. This last December 31st at around 9pm some friends realized they hadn’t looked at their indurance for the coming year yet… they went to a couple comparison sites and by 9.30 had switched insurers, without having to do much more than click on a few buttons. We were abroad at the time btw. Same thing with energy suppliers and car insurance, you pick your new insurer and they’ll make sure your old policy stops and that the new one only begins when the old one is up. When my car window had a crack, I didn’t even need to contact my insurer. I went to carglass, they filled in my license plate number, replaced the window (while I waited whit coffee and wifi) and I drove off. A few weeks later I got a message from my insurer that they had paid 500 euros for the window and to have a nice day. There is litterally zero consequence for me. And that is how I can most accurately describe life here: easy. School was practically free and now that I have a fairly decent job (not great), I really can’t see where my next crisis would be coming from. It seems almost impossible to get fired (looking at the incompetence among colleagues), if the company does go under, I have about a year at 75% pay while I look for a new job. If I get ill, I stay at full salary for at least a year and that might get extended to a second year at 80% (I think), before I can be let go… Off course there are many (and more important) non financial things I can worry about and at the moment I seem to know far too many people that are losing family members, suffering from cancer, other illnesses and so on. But never once have I heard money being mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/28 "2019-02-10T02:49:55Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’d trade a lower standard of living for more job security and reliable health care. Funny - I’d say greater job security and reliable health care would add up to a higher standard of living? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/29 "2019-02-10T03:53:18Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > As others have noted, no. > > Even retirees, who get (non-Obamacare) single-payer from the US government must pay a minimum of $135/month. That covers only 80% and does not include drugs. In my case, additional insurance for the 20% and drugs brings my monthly cost to $250 - plus an annual deductible of $2240. > > There are drug co-pays that are impossible to predict, so I budget $500/month for healthcare in retirement. 41% of social security income goes to medical care not covered by medicare. By 2030, it’ll be 50%. Soon social security will just be a system to pay medical bills not covered by medicare. > **[Medicare Users to Spend Social Security on Health Care](https://www.aarp.org/health/medicare-insurance/info-2018/medicare-social-security-check-fd.html)** > > A Kaiser Family Foundation report finds that by 2030, health care will take half of a recipient’s Social Security income, even if they have Medicare. Also that figure doesn’t include long term care, which costs 10 grand a month in the US. I predict an exodus of Americans fleeing for eastern europe, latin america, asia, etc. in the coming decades to escape our system. ---
**Author:** ![HeiLo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c77e96/32.png) [@HeiLo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeiLo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/30 "2019-02-10T09:25:27Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > And energy costs in Europe are substantial, as well. Not just fuel for the car, but electricity and heating oil. It’s all 2-3 times what I would pay in the states. How do Europeans afford it?? > My heating bill alone is 300 Euro a month, and that’s averaging out the year! It’s close to 1000 per month in the winter, and that’s without paying VAT. Similarly, if I paid for fuel at the regular European price, I would not be able to afford to drive anywhere. Mostly by using less, aided by better efficiencies and insulation, I guess. Pulling random numbers from the Internet, the US passenger fleet consumed 10.9 liters per 100 km in 2010 ([Average Fuel Efficiency of U.S. Passenger Cars and Light Trucks | Bureau of Transportation Statistics](https://www.bts.gov/content/average-fuel-efficiency-us-passenger-cars-and-light-trucks)) compared to between 6.8 and 7.9 l/100km in Germany ([Durchschnittlicher Kraftstoffverbrauch von Pkw | Statista](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/484054/umfrage/durchschnittsverbrauch-pkw-in-privaten-haushalten-in-deutschland/)). Likewise, average heating cost per year and square meter in 2017 in Germany ranges from 6.7 to 12.8 € ([Heizkosten pro m²: Fernwärme / Zentralheizung (Rechner) | Heizspiegel](https://www.heizspiegel.de/heizkosten-pruefen/heizkosten-pro-m2-vergleich/#c86567)). Of course, the temperate climate here helps, in the same way that residential air conditioning is very uncommon. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/31 "2019-02-10T21:13:35Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > For [Scandinavian countries](https://taxfoundation.org/how-scandinavian-countries-pay-their-government-spending/) (Sweden, Denmark, and Norway) with their lauded social democratic safety net the early kick in of top marginal rates is particularly striking. > Remember that Norway gets a big chunk of tax revenue from their oil industry and still needs to dig that deep into their middle class to afford their system. Also, note that Danish example in the quote is stated by multiplying against the US average. The tax 60% marginal rate actually kicks in at 1.2 times their average rate which is lower middle class for the US because of their lower incomes. In Denmark households that are paying the top marginal tax rate would in the US terms(with kids and at monetary exchange rates) likely still be getting a **subsidy** under one of our major anti-poverty programs - the Earned Income Tax Credit and associated Child Tax Credit. > > Given the realities of most European tax systems, we need to look at median household taxes and not just compare out of pocket expenses for things subsidized by government like health care. The net costs to even middle class households include significant taxes that need to be factored in to truly compare net costs. The tax base among the wealthy simply isn’t big enough to afford those levels of spending. Speaking as a Norwegian who has been employed in Norway for many years, this does not seem correct. My experience is that a median income has about the same total taxes as an American one. Just comparing the top rate does not give you a correct picture, for most people is it far more important at what income you start paying tax and where the increase points are beyond that. Not to mention deductions. ( Also I don’t see why the oil matters all that much since all the oi money gets tucked away for a rainy day and does not pay for anything. ) You can calculate what you’d pay in tax in Norway here: [Skattekalkulator](https://skattekalkulator.app.skatteetaten.no/#/skattesubjekt) Its the tax authorities own tax calculator and its always been right for me. Average monthly wage in Norway is 6400 and the median household income is 61 500 . If you try playing around with that to see what Your Tax in Norway would be, the only thing you need to remember is that property goes in a 25 % of its market value. And the 10-year average exchange rate is 1 $ = 7 Kr. You used to be able to look at the taxes of everyone, but for the last few years you’ve needed to be able to log in to do that, so its basically for residents. The other Nordic countries tax rates can be looked at here:[https://www.nordisketax.net/?l=eng](https://www.nordisketax.net/?l=eng) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227/32 "2019-02-11T00:46:36Z")
I’d be upper middle class in the USA. Assuming nothing bad went wrong, I’d be richer in the USA than I am here. In particular, I’d have a better house. Unless I lived in LA or NYC. It does bother me sometimes. On the other hand, If I lived in the USA, I’d still be paying off my college loans, and, as it turned out, stuff did go wrong. I have no desire to move back to the USA. I feel sad about the house sometimes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/median-income-and-standard-of-living-in-your-country-compared-to-usa-how-do-you-feel-about-that/829227.md?page=1)