# Medical Ethics question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 20, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484 "2018-05-20T01:21:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/1 "2018-05-20T01:21:54Z")
Could a doctor lose his medical license for beating his wife, or any other bad behavior that doesn’t happen on the job? ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/2 "2018-05-20T02:16:00Z")
Can’t speak for all but a dentist in Texas sure can ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/3 "2018-05-20T02:40:18Z")
Sure. Committing felonies and misdemeanors can be grounds for limitation/suspension/revocation of license, as it would tend to be considered unprofessional conduct. A doc I know murdered his wife, and once convicted his license was revoked. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/4 "2018-05-20T03:36:18Z")
Yes, and the same thing is true for other people who have state licenses, even in non-health care fields. In Illinois, most of the disciplinary actions are taken against barbers and beauticians, and - get this - locksmiths. The most common reason for action against the former is practicing without a license (in short, hanging out a shingle and calling themselves a barber, hair braider, nail technician, etc. without proper training and licensure) and the latter? Lying about their criminal records. :smack: Having delinquent child support can get your license yanked too. People who get in trouble for this usually have other strikes against their license. The most insane things I’ve seen for pharmacists were the woman who owned a house that was being used for growing marijuana (and tried to say that the weed belonged to her boyfriend) and the man who was arrested for exposing himself to women in the parking lot of the store where he worked. In case you’re wondering if he worked at Walgreens, you’re right, and that being the case, he could at least have gone across the street to CVS. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/5 "2018-05-20T03:38:18Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Sure. Committing felonies and misdemeanors can be grounds for limitation/suspension/revocation of license, as it would tend to be considered unprofessional conduct. > > A doc I know murdered his wife, and once convicted his license was revoked. There was a heavily publicized case in Illinois a few years ago about a female doctor who killed her disabled daughter; upon conviction, her license was suspended, and revoked after she went to prison for something (the website doesn’t say what) she did while incarcerated that got her on a sex offender registry. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/6 "2018-05-20T05:06:24Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Sure. Committing felonies and misdemeanors can be grounds for limitation/suspension/revocation of license, as it would tend to be considered unprofessional conduct. > > A doc I know murdered his wife, and once convicted his license was revoked. Under what statute or professional conduct rules? I could find nothing in the AMA code of ethics or State Medical Board that addressed conduct outside of the workplace. But I know a pediatrician that abuses his wife and kids, and I feel that his behavior is so unbecoming of medical professional that he should lose his license, yet it is known locally and he is still practicing. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/7 "2018-05-20T05:07:48Z")
[quote=“nearwildheaven, post:4, topic:814484”] Having delinquent child support can get your license yanked too. People who get in trouble for this usually have other strikes against their license. /QUOTE] Can you provide a link for this? ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/8 "2018-05-20T06:13:39Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Under what statute or professional conduct rules? I could find nothing in the AMA code of ethics or State Medical Board that addressed conduct outside of the workplace. > > But I know a pediatrician that abuses his wife and kids, and I feel that his behavior is so unbecoming of medical professional that he should lose his license, yet it is known locally and he is still practicing. I believe most states have a provision for revoking licenses after being convicted of certain felonies. Here for example is [Idaho’s statute](https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/title54/t54ch18/sect54-1814/). The state Board of Medicine is not the place to bring this complaint. You need to start with the police. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/9 "2018-05-20T13:33:05Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Under what statute or professional conduct rules? I could find nothing in the AMA code of ethics or State Medical Board that addressed conduct outside of the workplace. Just a note that A.M.A. codes have no enforcement provisions as far as licensure goes. Like any guidelines the A.M.A. issues, they’re suggestions, not rules. I get summaries of board actions in states where I’m licensed, and disciplinary actions occur all the time for non-practice related violations. I note one recent set of medical actions by the Texas board that included license revocation for public intoxication (and failure to show up for court proceedings), and another for sexual exploitation of children in another state. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/10 "2018-05-20T22:01:44Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > Under what statute or professional conduct rules? I could find nothing in the AMA code of ethics or State Medical Board that addressed conduct outside of the workplace. > > But I know a pediatrician that abuses his wife and kids, and I feel that his behavior is so unbecoming of medical professional that he should lose his license, yet it is known locally and he is still practicing. He’ll have to be arrested first. Do you know if this has happened, or does he abuse them in such a way that he’s not technically breaking any laws (yelling at them all the time, financial abuse, etc.)? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/11 "2018-05-20T22:05:07Z")
[quote=“Enola\_Gay, post:7, topic:814484”] > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Having delinquent child support can get your license yanked too. People who get in trouble for this usually have other strikes against their license. > > /QUOTE] > > Can you provide a link for this? [https://idfpr.com/](https://idfpr.com/) It’s all done online nowadays, and you have to answer three questions: Do you wish to renew your license; are you obligated to pay child support and if so, are you no more than 30 days in arrears; and have you done your continuing education? Believe me, they have ways of finding out if you lied. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/12 "2018-05-22T17:29:22Z")
Last I heard one of the most common reasons for an RN to lose a license is DUI. First offenses seem pretty survivable… But after that… You’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/13 "2018-05-22T18:37:51Z")
From the California nursing rules. BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE - BPC DIVISION 2. HEALING ARTS [500 - 4999.129] ( Division 2 enacted by Stats. 1937, Ch. 399. ) CHAPTER 6. Nursing [2700 - 2838.4] ( Chapter 6 repealed and added by Stats. 1939, Ch. 807. ) > [@](#): > > (f) Conviction of a felony or of any offense substantially related to the qualifications, functions, and duties of a registered nurse, in which event the record of the conviction shall be conclusive evidence thereof. AIUI, ‘substantially related to’ is interpreted as anything the demonstrates a fundamental untrustworthiness. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/14 "2019-04-03T21:01:03Z")
Bouncing this thread to note that you could lose your license for cheating your kids way into college. > [@](#): > > The government has given defendants only a few weeks to accept a plea or face indictment and _possible additional charges,_ > > –snip– > In a sign of prosecutors’ aggressiveness, a grand jury on Tuesday indicted the Colburns for conspiracy to commit both fraud and\* money laundering\*, after they balked at a felony plea deal that could have cost Colburn his physician’s license italics added [https://news.yahoo.com/parents-college-scandal-face-judge-162638528.html](https://news.yahoo.com/parents-college-scandal-face-judge-162638528.html) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/15 "2019-04-03T21:45:57Z")
Yes, the prosecutors nowadays have the latitude to retaliate with extremely high sentences if the defendant has the temerity to insist on a trial and the possibility that perhaps his sentence is determined by a judge. (I read somewhere the British system limits plea deals to 2/3 of sentence to be asked for at trial; the logic being it simply means the ones who know they’ll be found guilty have a reasonable incentive to plead guilty, while the ones insisting on their innocence are not betting their entire life on a trial - worst case, they spend 50% more time in jail.) I assume a doctor who stabbed his wife (or husband) to death would be guilty of malpractice surgery. And if you lie about being in arrears on child support - what are they going to do? Suspend your license? Kind of reminds me of the fellow about to be stoned to death in _Life of Brian_: “Silence!! You’re only making it worse for yourself!” “Only making it worse? How could it be any worse… Jehovah, ♫ Jehovah…” ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/16 "2019-04-03T22:23:08Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, the prosecutors nowadays have the latitude to retaliate with extremely high sentences if the defendant has the temerity to insist on a trial and the possibility that perhaps his sentence is determined by a judge. (I read somewhere the British system limits plea deals to 2/3 of sentence to be asked for at trial; the logic being it simply means the ones who know they’ll be found guilty have a reasonable incentive to plead guilty, while the ones insisting on their innocence are not betting their entire life on a trial - worst case, they spend 50% more time in jail.) There has to be some incentive for a not guilty plea, otherwise, why would you? A guilty plea saves time and costs and is rewarded with up to a 50% reduction in sentence. Note the ‘up to’. At a recent case where a man abducted a child and raped and murdered her, even a guilty plea would not have spared him a very lengthy jail sentence, with the strong possibility of never being released. > **[Alesha MacPhail trial: Boy, 16, found guilty of rape and murder of...](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/21/teenager-found-guilty-rape-murder-six-year-old-alesha-macphail/)** > > A teenage boy has been convicted of abducting, raping and murdering six-year-old Alesha MacPhail in a crime that shocked Britain last summer. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/17 "2019-04-03T23:38:54Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, the prosecutors nowadays have the latitude to retaliate with extremely high sentences if the defendant has the temerity to insist on a trial and the possibility that perhaps his sentence is determined by a judge. (I read somewhere the British system limits plea deals to 2/3 of sentence to be asked for at trial; the logic being it simply means the ones who know they’ll be found guilty have a reasonable incentive to plead guilty, while the ones insisting on their innocence are not betting their entire life on a trial - worst case, they spend 50% more time in jail.) not really the point of the thread, and > [@](#): > > I assume a doctor who stabbed his wife (or husband) to death would be guilty of malpractice surgery. no. ETA I suppose I should say I really doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/18 "2019-04-04T21:34:19Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Yes, the prosecutors nowadays have the latitude to retaliate with extremely high sentences if the defendant has the temerity to insist on a trial and the possibility that perhaps his sentence is determined by a judge. This is nonsense. A defendant who accepts a plea deal generally _does_ have his sentence determined by a judge. A plea agreement may or may not be binding on the court, and the judge is free to reject even a binding plea agreement and force the parties to start from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/19 "2019-04-04T21:47:48Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I assume a doctor who stabbed his wife (or husband) to death would be guilty of malpractice surgery. Hey! The doctor probably had malpractice insurance. So could the wife’s heirs sue the insurance company for this ‘unauthorized & unsuccessful’ surgery? Seems silly, but I wouldn’t be surprised if some lawyer has tried it. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-ethics-question/814484/20 "2019-04-04T21:59:43Z")
> [@Enola\_Gay](#): > > > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > > > Having delinquent child support can get your license yanked too. People who get in trouble for this usually have other strikes against their license. > > Can you provide a link for this? Don’t have a specific legal cite, but I know this can be done here in Minnesota – I used to do it. When I worked with Child Support Collections, we would ask the state to start suspension proceedings agains people who wouldn’t pay their child support. Mostly this was Drivers Licenses, but it could be used for any professional licenses issued by the state. Nurses, Barbers, Hairdressers, Electricians, Plumbers, Contractors, Accountants, etc. There are a whole lot of these professions. And this was a pretty strong lever we used to get people to make payment plans for their delinquent child support. Having that license suspended usually meant they could not work in their professions, so cuts off all their legal income.