Medical Marijuana Patients denied organ transplants

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
Other things aside, it is the smoking that is the chief clinical issue here.

Smoking any substance decreases the chances for a good outcome. Worse healing, lousy tissue perfusion, reduced oxygen levels, the whole ball of wax.

Active smokers aren’t candidates for most transplants. Period.
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Ok, but there are alternative methods of ingesting cannabis. There’s vaporization (which heats the cannabis just enough to evaporate the THC and not generate smoke) and then there’s oral consumption. Would a marijuana user who didn’t smoke still be ineligible?

And when we’re talking eligibility here, I’m assuming this means they’re passed over in favor of more “worthy” patients who need it… right? Please don’t tell me they’ll just let the liver rot rather than give it to those evil marijuana users.

42

I don’t know if chronic alcoholics are excluded - take the case of Mickey Mantle.

From Wikipedia:

He then passed away on August 13th of that same year.

I guess another factor to consider for an organ recipient is that a celebrity (especially a sports figure) is deemed more eligible than just ordinary folks. (Especially those “ordinary folks” that may have used marijuana). Not that I’m saying Mickey Mantle was given any preferential treatment. :rolleyes: Oh no I’m sure he waited his turn. :mad:

43

[QUOTE=Blalron]
And when we’re talking eligibility here, I’m assuming this means they’re passed over in favor of more “worthy” patients who need it… right? Please don’t tell me they’ll just let the liver rot rather than give it to those evil marijuana users.
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I have no idea about your hypothetical but the liver list is unfortunately long enough that no organ will ever go to waste. In real life that situation simply wouldn’t occur.

44

[QUOTE=Blalron]
Ok, but there are alternative methods of ingesting cannabis. There’s vaporization (which heats the cannabis just enough to evaporate the THC and not generate smoke) and then there’s oral consumption. Would a marijuana user who didn’t smoke still be ineligible?
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It’d depend on the particular institution’s guidelines.

But on the whole if the patient had a history of alcoholism or chemical dependency and was regularly ingesting marijuana, that’d be a sign of an active disease process (addiction), which wouldn’t bode well for transplant eligibility either.

45

[QUOTE=wolf_meister]
I don’t know if chronic alcoholics are excluded - take the case of Mickey Mantle.
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Yeah, I’m still pissed about that one too. As were quite a few regional transplant coordinators that I know of.

46

[QUOTE=wolf_meister]
I don’t know if chronic alcoholics are excluded - take the case of Mickey Mantle.
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Or David Crosby. If former alchies were excluded, the liver list would be significantly shorter. The rule is that you must be clean for six months before you get on the list. This means alcohol or any illegal drug. My gf, who at the time drank a couple of glasses of wine a week, also had to abstain from all alcohol. During the six months and when you are on the list, you have to submit to random testing. Mantle had stopped drinking at that point.

I’m not sure if Mantle or Crosby or Phil Lesh got preferential treatment. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did, however, my gf has been very active in organ donation support groups and it’s not a big issue at all in those communities. There are several thousand liver transplants performed each year in the United States so it would be tough to prove since so much of your score is made up of subjective measures.

One could argue that a celebrity getting a transplant brings great publicity and will cause more people to sign donor cards and will bring more money for transplant research. This will save more lives in the long run. Phil Lesh is a huge advocate, for example, and has raised millions of dollars for the cause.

47

[QUOTE=Blalron]
And when we’re talking eligibility here, I’m assuming this means they’re passed over in favor of more “worthy” patients who need it… right? Please don’t tell me they’ll just let the liver rot rather than give it to those evil marijuana users.
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Oh, and understand my point of view. I’m in favor of decriminalization of marijuana, along with its medical use.

But I favor the medical use for nausea associated with chemo, folks with severe chronic wasting diseases that lead to malnutrition and/or death, and folks with malignant pain syndromes.

The abomination of the ‘medical marijuana’ program they’ve put together in California, where anyone who complains of headaches or elevated intraocular pressure or chronic fatigue or PMS or ‘anxiety’ can get a script for pot, has set back legitimate use of THC by the medical profession for decades.

Also, any potential transplant candidate who can’t or won’t stop using pot in order to be on the transplant list probably is not such a hot candidate for transplant.

48

Mantle’s tumor should have ruled him out for the transplant. From what I’ve seen publicly printed about the case anyway.

49

[QUOTE=hajario]
Or David Crosby. If former alchies were excluded, the liver list would be significantly shorter. The rule is that you must be clean for six months before you get on the list. This means alcohol or any illegal drug.
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I was thinking of alcoholics actively abusing. I can understand a recovering alcoholic being eligible for a transplant.

50

Update: This guy is dead now.

51

[QUOTE=Martin Hyde]
Just curious, how many livers do you think there are? (There are something like 6.5 billion people on Earth. You can’t live without a liver so ALL of them need livers, so for anyone to get a liver, someone else has to die–at least if we’re talking about a full liver transplant and not one of the partial transplants where they just take a chunk of someone else’s liver from a live donor. When you factor in how many people die who have unusable livers, and all the problems that come with matching donor liver to recipient liver, you might see why they are so scarce.)

If there were enough livers for everyone, this man would have a liver. As it is, liver are extremely hard to come by–so hospitals have to use very strict eligibility tests to determine who gets an extremely limited resource.

For example, an unrepentant alcoholic who says he has no desire to buy into abstinence, even if he gets a new liver, shouldn’t be given a new liver over someone who has been sober for years. The logic there isn’t to “punish” the patient that likes to drink, it’s to make the best use of a very limited resource. A liver is better in someone who isn’t going to immediately destroy it with alcohol.

With people who use dope, there’s a fear that that’s someone who is more likely to use other drugs that will have a direct effect on the liver.

The patient in question isn’t just a user of medical marijuana, he was also apparently arrested for growing his own marijuana illegally.

I’m not making any moral judgments on the man, but if it’s between him and a guy who has never done drugs, you have to choose the guy who has never done drugs. It’s not a moral judgment on the decision to use drugs, it’s a practical decision based on who is most likely to not abuse that liver.

I think other factors would have to be huge, too. I hate to say it but this guy is (like myself) in his 50s. Sorry, but he shouldn’t get a liver over a teenager or someone in their 20s, either. Those people have a huge life left to live, this guy has already lived his life.
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Well said. Seriously. The way the OP read to me was like livers were quite commonly available, which they are not, at least, not ones that are healthy enough or an organ match for a transplant.

52

[QUOTE=spooje]
You think it’s possible that the transplant folks don’t really believe this?

I’m a recovering addict, and I know a lot of recovering addicts with Hep C. I know one that got a new liver. **It’s known in our circles that getting a new liver is an uphill battle because we are generally considered to be less than perfect candidates for liver transplants. **

Not really sure why, other than possibly relapse rates.
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As an alcohol addict myself, I have to say: Gee, you think?

53

Heh. I remember when Mickey Mantle got his new liver. Obviously, previous behavior wasn’t an issue. Oh, wait… :wink:

Liver transplants were under my radar for years, until my nephew needed a liver at birth (he got his transplant at 3 months old). From what I understand, adults can receive a partial liver (as long as all required structures are there) and both the transplanted piece and the now-partial donor liver can grow and become two “regular” livers. True?

In my nephew’s case, he was so small that a partial liver piece from one of us was out of the question, and the only option was a cadaver donation. Plus, it could only be from a small child. Someday when you’re bored, try wishing for the life of a loved one to be saved, knowing that it must mean the worst possible outcome for another family. :frowning:

Livers are the most commonly transplanted organs, IIRC. Even so , there are a finite number of possible donors and matches. Outraged? Join a fucking registry, especially if you are a member of an under-represented group like hispanics or blacks.

Oops, there was an OP… You had better be able to convince me that you are prepared for the lifetime of vigilance required with an organ transplant, or you shouldn’t be allowed to have one. I won’t hold your previous bad behavior against you if you are committed to changing that behavior. But if you don’t, and that liver or other donated organ is lost purely due to assholishness… :mad:

54

[QUOTE=EJsGirl]
Heh. I remember when Mickey Mantle got his new liver. Obviously, previous behavior wasn’t an issue. Oh, wait… :wink:

Liver transplants were under my radar for years, until my nephew needed a liver at birth (he got his transplant at 3 months old). From what I understand, adults can receive a partial liver (as long as all required structures are there) and both the transplanted piece and the now-partial donor liver can grow and become two “regular” livers. True?

In my nephew’s case, he was so small that a partial liver piece from one of us was out of the question, and the only option was a cadaver donation. Plus, it could only be from a small child. Someday when you’re bored, try wishing for the life of a loved one to be saved, knowing that it must mean the worst possible outcome for another family. :frowning:

Livers are the most commonly transplanted organs, IIRC. Even so , there are a finite number of possible donors and matches. Outraged? Join a fucking registry, especially if you are a member of an under-represented group like hispanics or blacks.

Oops, there was an OP… You had better be able to convince me that you are prepared for the lifetime of vigilance required with an organ transplant, or you shouldn’t be allowed to have one. I won’t hold your previous bad behavior against you if you are committed to changing that behavior. But if you don’t, and that liver or other donated organ is lost purely due to assholishness… :mad:
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That is sad. As an owner of two young boys, I would happily donate my liver so that I should die and they may live.

55

I’ve a few kidney recipients as patients who lost their new organ due to reckless behavior.

Most distressing, really.