# Medical question: Do I need a naturopath? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 15, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818 "2016-05-15T03:54:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/61 "2016-05-20T01:38:22Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Have you tried lying in the position you were in when you got the shot? Well. The acupuncturist recommended jumping up and down 10 times, then doing a head roll in each direction. Bet y’all didn’t see that coming. The weird thing is, the head roll…actually helps. I don’t know about the jumping. Maybe it’s to warm me up for the head roll. Note that so far it’s Woo-1, Real Medicine-0. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/62 "2016-05-21T23:40:33Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > How does a policy like that, which has nothing to do with the treatment you’re given for whatever malady you have, make them not holistic? Holistic means you address the entire body. If you’re requiring two appointments for two different symptoms, then you didn’t address the entire body the first time. I would also not consider it a good time management technique, since two appointments will take more time than one. There’s a lot of stuff that has to be repeated. The solution is not to make it two appointments (unless doing so is unavoidable), but to allot more time for an appointment if there are multiple issues. As for the OP, your mistake was simple. To ask advice here, you must make sure that there is nothing anyone can attack you on. In this case, you used the word “naturopath” and should not have. It is not important to your question, and inspires those who know little more than “naturopathy is woo” to answer. These are also, unfortunately, more likely to be the type that think that you fight ignorance by being a jerk to others and then complain when people don’t listen, when the evidence shows that such reactions are more likely to make the person not take your advice. (Not that I, unfortunately, am immune to such magical thinking.) Anyways, the only vitamin I know of that gives you a flush is niacin. The main B shot I know doctors give is B12, sometimes mixed with B6. Though he may have also given you a steroid shot that would help with inflammation, or even an antibiotic plus steroid. Steroids can cause flushing. And then there are decongestants/vasoconstrictors that can be given in shot form. You do have to entertain the idea that it was coincidence, or that what you had then is not what you have now, even though they are similar. It is true that, if this treatment always worked, it would be standard. And it is true that there does not seem to be any medical evidence of a B-vitamin being used successfully. (There is some for the head position part–that can also work as a vasoconstrictor.) And niacin causes vasodilation, the opposite of a decongestant. I’d only think it might be given with something else. I will additionally also offer evidence-based treatments that I have recently become aware of: that of increasing the concentration of the saline in your nasal washes (e.g. using two packets instead of one)–which should reduce swelling. Also you may wish to try using a tiny, tiny amount Johnson’s Baby Shampoo to flush out your sinuses, which can help get past any biofilm that can make bacterial sinus infections hard to treat. Though both of these can be highly uncomfortable if you are already fully sick. And, yeah, you probably will get past this eventually on your own. Five days is not all that long. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/63 "2016-05-21T23:58:27Z")
Well, to paraphrase xkcd, the important thing is that you’ve found a way to feel superior to both the naturopath quacks and the skeptics. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/64 "2016-05-22T03:59:21Z")
If jumping up and down and vigorous head-rolling don’t have a lasting effect, there are other forms of physical exertion that might. Have you tried skydiving and waiting until the last minute to pull the ripcord? The shock of hitting the ground at excessive speed might be just the thing to clear out your antrums. Or you could get into the ring with an MMA champion to experience the phlegm-loosening effect of a few head shots. If these alternatives sound too risky, try having someone sneak up behind you and scream loudly or set off an air horn (combines leaping six feet into the air with a sudden adrenaline rush). I thought of another, possibly more practical solution to the OP’s problem while dining out this evening. I had prime rib with plenty of ground horseradish, and let me tell you - that stuff will flush out your nasal passages and sinuses in a twinkling (genuine hot Chinese mustard works nicely too). And it’s cheaper than the acupuncturist. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/65 "2016-05-22T09:18:14Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Note that so far it’s Woo-1, Real Medicine-0. No it isn’t. Woo is based on ancedotal evidence (sometimes just a single incident vaguely remembered from decades ago.) Real medicine is always based on lots of evidence from properly conducted tests. I’m glad that your symptoms are being helped, but your personal experience does not invalidate evidence-based medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/66 "2016-05-22T14:30:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > As in MD? > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Yes. As in, went to medical school, licensed by Board of Medical Examiners, affiliated with two hospitals. Graduating from medical school, being licensed and having hospital affiliations is not exactly a guarantee of practicing good medicine. [Exhibit A here](http://www.dailynews.com/article/ZZ/20110930/NEWS/110939983) boasts of 13 hospital affiliations. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/67 "2016-05-22T18:43:48Z")
> [@glee](#): > > No it isn’t. > > Woo is based on ancedotal evidence (sometimes just a single incident vaguely remembered from decades ago.) > > Real medicine is always based on lots of evidence from properly conducted tests. > > I’m glad that your symptoms are being helped, but your personal experience does not invalidate evidence-based medicine. Did you actually read that thing you linked to? ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/68 "2016-05-22T18:50:13Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Graduating from medical school, being licensed and having hospital affiliations is not exactly a guarantee of practicing good medicine. > > [Exhibit A here](http://www.dailynews.com/article/ZZ/20110930/NEWS/110939983) boasts of 13 hospital affiliations. It must be tough on people who have spent 200K on medical school to know that something like 90 percent of the things people see doctors for will resolve in the patient’s favor, with or without medical treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/69 "2016-05-23T12:22:12Z")
Can we have a closer look at the orifice you pulled that statistic from? Meantime, here’s insight into what patients can look forward to from a naturopath visit. > **[ND Confession, Part 1: Clinical training inside and out](https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/nd-confession-part-1-clinical-training-inside-and-out/)** > > Despite claims to the contrary, a naturopathic education is not comparable to that of a physician, and the biggest gap is in clinical training after classroom instruction ends. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/70 "2016-05-23T14:46:37Z")
> [@glee](#): > > No it isn’t. > > Woo is based on ancedotal evidence (sometimes just a single incident vaguely remembered from decades ago.) > > Real medicine is always based on lots of evidence from properly conducted tests. > > I’m glad that your symptoms are being helped, but your personal experience does not invalidate evidence-based medicine. > [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Did you actually read that thing you linked to? I admit the link was a bit turgid. :o However I’ll stand by my key points: - Woo is based on single ancedotes - Real medicine is based on lots of evidence from properly conducted tests. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/71 "2016-05-23T21:06:28Z")
Learn to code they said. Go to school for a ton of years they said. Who knew all I had to do was make shit up and people would throw money at me? OP needs to see an ENT. They help. That camera that gets shoved through your nose and down your throat is no picnic though 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/72 "2016-05-24T03:55:26Z")
\*The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease. \* -(attributed to Ben Jonson or Voltaire) ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/73 "2016-05-24T04:11:52Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Can we have a closer look at the orifice you pulled that statistic from? > > Meantime, here’s insight into what patients can look forward to from a naturopath visit. > > [https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/nd-confession-part-1-clinical-training-inside-and-out/](https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/nd-confession-part-1-clinical-training-inside-and-out/) Well, really it’s more of an ex-naturopath detailing her naturopathic education, in all its deficiencies. Without saying how it should have been done. But here is what patients can look forward to with a regular doctor visit. > **[Why I Can't Stop Being a Useless Doctor](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jim-sherifi/why-i-cant-stop-being-a-u_b_5743780.html)** > > So GPs are once again to blame for encouraging the spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria which will eventually annihilate all mankind. Well- mea culpa. However before you tar and feather me let me take you through a typical GP consultation and then... (Yeah, Huffington Post, sorry.) But note the one-visit-one-ailment issue. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/74 "2016-05-24T05:15:53Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > But here is what patients can look forward to with a regular doctor visit. > > [Why I Can't Stop Being a Useless Doctor | HuffPost UK Life](http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jim-sherifi/why-i-cant-stop-being-a-u_b_5743780.html) > > (Yeah, Huffington Post, sorry.) But note the one-visit-one-ailment issue. I’m astonished at the take-away message that you got from that article. I have no idea if it’s a fair representation of a typical GP’s experience, but the message was: Many patients think they know best, and will not listen to evidence-based recommendations, especially when best practice is to do nothing; and patients may try to obtain the medication that _they_ think is best by subterfuge. In this anecdote, the reason that the doctor refused to address the second condition was because the woman was obviously trying to obtain the denied antibiotics by lying about her own condition in order to give them to her daughter. A holistic approach is to be applauded, and most GPs in my experience will try to spend time discussing important holistic issues with major health implications such as the patient’s weight and lack of exercise, making recommendations for lifestyle, diet, etc. - usually roundly ignored. A naturopath can, of course, give the patient what they want - a “treatment” for every condition that they bring up. Since naturopathic treatments on’t have any effect at all, there is no need to worry about problems like antibiotic resistance. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/75 "2016-05-24T05:27:26Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > \*The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease. \* > > -(attributed to Ben Jonson or Voltaire) …Except, of course, when in cases of appendicitis, MRSA, sepsis or cancer, etc., nature would let the patient die. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/76 "2016-05-24T08:27:45Z")
I thought the message was: Here is a typical visit during which the patient gets absolutely nothing, except of course the reassurance that everything will be okay, on its own, and this doctor has a day full of similar visits. And he did say the one-problem thing was a policy, not an attempt to avert drug fraud. I actually support the no-antibiotics thing. But holy crap, he didn’t even say, “Call me back if her fever gets above XXX.” I mean, yeah, it probably won’t, but… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/77 "2016-05-24T09:05:03Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > I thought the message was: Here is a typical visit during which the patient gets absolutely nothing, except of course the reassurance that everything will be okay, on its own, and this doctor has a day full of similar visits. > > And he did say the one-problem thing was a policy, not an attempt to avert drug fraud. > > I actually support the no-antibiotics thing. But holy crap, he didn’t even say, “Call me back if her fever gets above XXX.” I mean, yeah, it probably won’t, but… No, I think you need to go back and consider it more carefully. In case you weren’t aware, the N.I.C.E. is this body: > **[National Institute for Health and Care Excellence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Institute_for_Health_and_Care_Excellence)** > > The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) is an executive non-departmental public body, in England, of the Department of Health and Social Care, that publishes guidelines in four areas: > These appraisals are based primarily on evidence-based evaluations of efficacy, safety and cost-effectiveness in various circumstances. > It serves both the English NHS and the Welsh NHS. It was set up as the National Institute for Clinical Excellence in 1999, and on 1 April 2005 joined with ... Among other things, they provide evidence-based recommendations for best clinical practice. The story that you linked to **very obviously** exemplified a doctor’s frustration at trying to deal diplomatically with a patient who stubbornly refused to accept the evidence-based treatment recommended by her doctor, in line with N.I.C.E. guidlines, that her child’s mild viral infection should not be treated with antibiotics, and that in fat no drug treatment was warranted, as is often the case. The patient then lied in order to try to obtain the antibiotics that she thought her child needed. (Your notion that the doctor did not give the routine instruction to return or go the E.R. if the condition worsened is unwarranted supposition.) As I said, it’s really quite astonishing that your reaction was to empathize with the _patient_ here, and criticize the _doctor_’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/78 "2016-05-24T13:09:51Z")
> [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](#): > > Well, really it’s more of an ex-naturopath detailing her naturopathic education, in all its deficiencies. Without saying how it should have been done. On the contrary - the article specifically talks about what the patient can expected from a naturopath visit. For example: \*"The patient care treatment plan is a mainstay of naturopathic medicine. It may include any, or all, of the following: a referral to a medical specialist, homeopath, acupuncturist, nutritionist, another ND or other provider; a medical prescription such as an antibiotic, birth control, or steroid; a botanical formula in the form of a tea, tincture, or poultice; a homeopathic remedy or energy medicine; home or in-office hydrotherapy recommendations such as contrast (hot/cold) showers, enemas, or sitz baths; nutritional and exercise recommendations, and so forth. The options seemed endless. A patient might have received any treatment recommendation! Many supervisors would limit the number of recommendations in an attempt to rein in plans that seemed to run wild. Other supervisors would have certain requirements to consider, such as if a homeopathic remedy were offered, another therapy must also be included. To the best of my memory, I was rarely asked about the medical standard of care for a diagnosis and treatment plan. The treatments offered to patients were usually abundant and seemed like a toss-up."\* What patients get is a non-evidence based assessment of their problem (i.e. an alteration in “vital force”) followed by a grab-bag of treatment options that is overwhelmingly not evidence-based either. But apparently this is attractive to some people if the naturopath spends extra time with them. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818/79 "2016-05-30T02:30:43Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Flonase was revelation and is now OTC. It works very well for me and I have chronic sinus issues. Much better than any of the old school decongestants. > > [http://nasacort.com/taking-prescription-allergy-spray.aspx?gclid=COeus5j53cwCFcYfhgod3tMFAg](http://nasacort.com/taking-prescription-allergy-spray.aspx?gclid=COeus5j53cwCFcYfhgod3tMFAg) [nitpick]You mention Flonase - but link to Nasacort[/nitpick] but both are indeed OTC now. Nasacort has the advantage that it doesn’t STINK to high heavens. Seriously, Flonase and I think Nasonex both reek of fake roses. Apparently it’s something inherent in the compound, not something deliberate. That said: if the OP is THAT clogged up, a nasal steroid might not be able to get up far enough to do much good. Neti (same issue but should start to help) plus an oral decongestant (the real pseudoephedrine, not that fake-ass phenylephrine stuff) might help, then start a nasal steroid as soon as possible. Back to the original question: when my husband was going in for minor surgery a few years back, he had the beginnings of a minor cold, The medical team discussed briefly and since he has no lung issues, decided to proceed with the surgery. The nurse said “Oh, they have ways of dealing with that” with a wink. He came out of the surgery feeling GREAT (cold-wise; surgery-wise not so good of course). He has no idea what they dosed him with but that cold was GONE. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medical-question-do-i-need-a-naturopath/754818.md?page=3)