# Medicalizing irresponsibility: a term as ridiculous as "affluenza" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824 "2017-03-23T11:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/21 "2017-03-23T17:39:16Z")
The argument against alarms is that they won’t help: we will get dependent or complacent, and then when they malfunction, tragedy strikes. And things with electronic sensors under heavy use in fairly rough environments are pretty prone to fail. I also forgot to buckle in my son one time. He was pretty big–maybe two years? And we were on the highway that trip, which is somewhat unusual. I still get chills thinking about it. One other change is that cars get hotter and get there more quickly than they used to. They are vastly better insulated than they were 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/22 "2017-03-23T18:09:46Z")
I don’t think “they’re not guaranteed to work 100% of the time without fail” is an argument against alarms. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/23 "2017-03-23T18:16:42Z")
I understand the issue better, and less judgmentally, than I did before I was a parent. Because I have been there - sleep-deprived, overwhelmed, trying to get five things done at once - and I have made bone-head mistakes that endangered my children. I caught myself in time, thank God, or my wife caught it, or I caught something that she forgot, and both children survived to adulthood. But now my panic and disgust at myself, and my horror at the thought of “what could have happened” gets projected out to those who _didn’t_ catch it in time. And I (unfortunately) relieve my own guilt and shame with outrage against those who weren’t as lucky, or who didn’t have a partner to back me up. “There but for the grace of God go I” is a really hard lesson to learn. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/24 "2017-03-23T18:23:43Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Regarding an alarm, yes, there are various alarms. Most of them, that I’ve seen, are set up in one way or another that when the vehicle is shut off, the alarm starts chirping and the driver needs to push a button, located near the child seat, to turn it off. They’re designed for day car vans and the button is put near the back of the van so the driver, each and every time, has to walk through the entire van and if some kid is asleep on the back bench, they’ll get seen. That’s a poor design in my opinion. An alarm that goes off all the time to remind you to check on something just becomes part of your mental routine and your mind will soon edit it out of your consciousness. An alarm needs to be something out of the normal routine in order to work. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/25 "2017-03-23T18:46:48Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In its essence it is no different to looking everywhere for your glasses and realising you had them on your head all along, or completely missing your exit on the motorway because you were talking to your wife. If you’ve ever done anything like that then you are at risk from something more serious like leaving a baby in the car. Sorry but I disagree that it is no different than a piece of plastic and glass. Surprisingly, I never leave the house without pants on. Nor do I forget to put my shoes on either. I would never forget that my children are in the car with me. Your children are not your keys or your wallet. You just don’t “forget” they are in the car. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/26 "2017-03-23T18:59:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry but I disagree that it is no different than a piece of plastic and glass. Surprisingly, I never leave the house without pants on. Nor do I forget to put my shoes on either. I would never forget that my children are in the car with me. > > Your children are not your keys or your wallet. You just don’t “forget” they are in the car. Do you have children? I hope not, because your arrogance will get them killed. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/27 "2017-03-23T19:04:13Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sorry but I disagree that it is no different than a piece of plastic and glass. Surprisingly, I never leave the house without pants on. Nor do I forget to put my shoes on either. I would never forget that my children are in the car with me. The material of the item being forgotten is…immaterial. The mechanism for forgetting the item, child or keys, can be exactly the same. The reason you don’t forget pants or shoes is because there is an ongoing and immediate tactile feedback that prevents you from doing so. Do you claim that you’ve never forgotten a bag? keys? money? wallet? phone? Wherever such feedback is not present and multiple distracting factors combine…tragedy can occur. You think you couldn’t forget because you hate to think of the horrific consequences. You are wrong. There is no other way to state it. You are wrong. Behavioural scientists will tell you all about it if you are willing to listen. > [@](#): > > Your children are not your keys or your wallet. You just don’t “forget” they are in the car. Yes you do, on rare and tragic occasions people do. People just like you, people smarter and just as conscientious and diligent and attentive as you. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/28 "2017-03-23T19:29:29Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Do you have children? I hope not, because your arrogance will get them killed. Yes, I do have children. That’s how I know I would never forget they were in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/29 "2017-03-23T19:30:44Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Yes you do, on rare and tragic occasions people do. People just like you, people smarter and just as conscientious and diligent and attentive as you. Obviously they WEREN’T just as conscientious and diligent and attentive as me. As proof, I give you the fact that they forgot their children were in the car. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/30 "2017-03-23T20:04:12Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I don’t think “they’re not guaranteed to work 100% of the time without fail” is an argument against alarms. It depends on how bad they are. If over the course of 3 years, they silently fail 5% of the time, but they double the chances that a parent will leave a kid in a car (because it doesn’t feel quite so important), I can believe that would up the total number of deaths. I never forgot my son, and a lot of the reason for that was my sheer panic at the thought. I was ill about it, because of coverage like this. If people think of it as a “solved” problem, that edge goes away. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/31 "2017-03-23T20:42:08Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Obviously they WEREN’T just as conscientious and diligent and attentive as me. As proof, I give you the fact that they forgot their children were in the car. While you haven’t **yet** … And with all luck probably never will. Since I don’t know anything about you I don’t know how attentive you may or may not be. It may be that you never in your life have accidentally left you wallet some place or left your car with the keys in the ignition, or missed an exit when driving. But if you have ever done one of things did you consciously decide that it was OK to forget that because it wasn’t important? Of course not. By definition there was no conscious thought or valuation at all otherwise you wouldn’t have forgotten it. There clearly are differences between keys and glasses vs babies, that make the former easier to forget than the latter. Otherwise we would have died out by now. Babies are larger, they make more noise and people spend more time thinking about them, so its harder to miss a baby than it is a set of keys. But it isn’t simply a matter of deciding that babies are too important to forget. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/32 "2017-03-23T21:48:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Obviously they WEREN’T just as conscientious and diligent and attentive as me. As proof, I give you the fact that they forgot their children were in the car. No, they are no different to you. They were just unlucky and encountered a set of distracting circumstances that, so far, you have not. I can see that you are impervious to reason here and I truly hope you never have reason to find out how fallible you are. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/33 "2017-03-23T22:25:02Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I understand the issue better, and less judgmentally, than I did before I was a parent. Because I have been there - sleep-deprived, overwhelmed, trying to get five things done at once - and I have made bone-head mistakes that endangered my children. I caught myself in time, thank God, or my wife caught it, or I caught something that she forgot, and both children survived to adulthood. > > But now my panic and disgust at myself, and my horror at the thought of “what could have happened” gets projected out to those who _didn’t_ catch it in time. And I (unfortunately) relieve my own guilt and shame with outrage against those who weren’t as lucky, or who didn’t have a partner to back me up. > > “There but for the grace of God go I” is a really hard lesson to learn. > > Regards, > Shodan Good post, **Shodan**. Probably fifteen or so years ago\* we had a similar thread on this subject, and I was a judgemental asshole. I’ve come to realize just how lucky I was not to have been put in the situation of driving my son to a sitter/day care or having to take him with me shopping often enough to have borne a higher risk of this sort of occurence. I am certainly more aware now of my lack of immunity to such frailties, and their tragic consequences. “There but for the grace of God,” indeed. \*OMG ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/34 "2017-03-23T22:26:52Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > I wasn’t saying it couldn’t happen, I was saying I find it hard to believe. There are many things I know are possible but have a difficult time believing. Have _you_ ever been _severely_ sleep-deprived? And I don’t think sleep deprivation is necessary as explanation; it’s easy to be overly robotic, frazzled or distracted. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/35 "2017-03-23T22:30:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > > [@gnoitall](#): > > > > Do you have children? I hope not, because your arrogance will get them killed. > > Yes, I do have children. That’s how I know I would never forget they were in the car. I think people like to imagine that there’s something wrong with the people to whom this happens; that they’re drunkards, drug abusers, bad parents or just generally forgetful. But if you read the Washington Post article, you’ll find that many of them are none of those; they’re just as much loving parents as any others. It’s happened to fathers. It’s happened to mothers. ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/36 "2017-03-23T23:04:23Z")
I remember the case where the skydiving videographer jumped out of the plane and forgot his parachute. That was a pretty important thing to forget too. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/37 "2017-03-23T23:15:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think people like to imagine that there’s something wrong with the people to whom this happens; that they’re drunkards, drug abusers, bad parents or just generally forgetful. But if you read the Washington Post article, you’ll find that many of them are none of those; they’re just as much loving parents as any others. It’s happened to fathers. It’s happened to mothers. Hearing about parents accidentally killing their child is like hearing about somebody being the victim of a murder or a rape. You don’t want to think about how the same thing could happen to you so you unconsciously distance yourself from the victim. You think something like _“They did something wrong and this terrible thing happened to them as a result. I don’t do that wrong thing so the terrible thing can’t happen to me.”_ ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/38 "2017-03-24T00:35:54Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > I would like to know exactly how sleep deprived she was. I am finding it difficult to believe someone would be so stressed and sleep deprived they mistakenly thought they had dropped their child at daycare. I don’t even think one needs to be sleep deprived for it to happen. I suspect it might happen to anyone. Very, very unlikely, but it can and will. As a previous poster said, everybody has brain farts and sometimes brain farts have dramatic consequences. Of course, there are careless parents, but I’m fully convinced that something awful that could in theory have been easily avoided could happen to even the most attentive parents. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/39 "2017-03-24T01:17:49Z")
Something to consider about this… there are several reasons why stuff like this gets labeled as a “syndrome.” - the basic human urge to sort and label everything; - the modern insistence by insurance companies, that everything be officially labeled, before they will arrange for coverage, or make payouts. - the news reporting industry, which by now mechanically creates “syndromes” all by itself, in order to simplify reporting work for themselves. - the urge by people guilty of the error to preserve their sanity by ascribing their terrible mistake to something bigger than they are. - the rewards to specialists and researchers in their careers, for naming a new “syndrome.” Remember not that long ago, the hot thing for up and coming medical researchers, was to drown some poor monkeys or mice in chemicals, and then declare they’d discovered a new cause of cancer. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/40 "2017-03-24T03:02:03Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But if you read the Washington Post article, you’ll find that many of them are none of those; they’re just as much loving parents as any others. It’s happened to fathers. It’s happened to mothers. Yeah, i used to think that everyone who left their kids in the car must be some sort of idiot or irresponsible asshole or whatever. People who were somehow fundamentally different from me. That _Washington Post_ article is one of the best pieces of journalism i’ve ever read, and since reading it i basically refuse to take seriously anyone who hasn’t read it and presumes to participate in a discussion over kids in cars. Anyone who marches in and rants about how THEY would never do this because they’re a parent just has no credibility in the conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=3)