# Medicalizing irresponsibility: a term as ridiculous as "affluenza" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824 "2017-03-23T11:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/81 "2017-03-24T15:33:57Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Wait, so parents don’t deserve to go to prison when their child dies from being left in a hot car? No, they don’t. Not if it was unintentional. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/82 "2017-03-24T15:50:01Z")
“I’m not like that. That can’t happen to me, because I’m just different.” Those words are the core self-delusion of all human nature. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/83 "2017-03-24T16:10:45Z")
Old threads: > **[People who "forget" their babies in the car on a hot day](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=726468)** > > Maybe it’s really obvious to those of you who have children that I don’t, but you will NEVER convince me that those are usually accidents. :mad: I really think that the people who do this are sick of caring for the baby, or are dealing with marital... > **[Do kids get left in cars in winter too, and we just don't hear about it?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=480965)** > > Am having trouble finding data on this. Every summer there’s a steady stream of stories about parents who inadvertently forget their kids in the car all day long, usually ending in tragedy due to high summer temperatures. Then fall comes, and the... > **[36 kids die in hot cars this year](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=207284)** > > Since (tragically) this subject comes up frequently in the Pit, I thought the Pitizens might be interested in this article about kids dying in hot cars. I know linking to the article is more of an MPSIMS thing, but it’s definitely a subject fit for... [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=801967](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=801967) > **[Kids left in cars - new laws needed?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=81772)** > > So I was reading this article from the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5301-2001Aug13.html I was particularly struck by this paragraph: As much as that might blow my mind (I personally can’t imagine not realizng... A lot of the same “It could never happen to me,” in these threads too. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/84 "2017-03-24T16:36:04Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If you aren’t even willing to concede the possibility then there is no point in talking to you That’s okay. I don’t need you talking to me to know that I wouldn’t leave my child in a car > [@](#): > > The investigations I have personally been involved with are commercially sensitive and subject to NDA’s. > > Will it make any difference? Really? If I give you evidence to show you the stupid mistakes that intelligent humans are capable of, will you be moved by it at all? Yes, I know that intelligent humans are capable of making stupid mistakes. I was just curious how many were due to lack of training, or of placing a higher priority on something else instead of what they were supposed to be doing. > [@](#): > > One famous incident was was the[Kegworth air disaster.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kegworth_air_disaster) . In which the pilot shut down the wrong engine This was lack of training. I don’t need training to know not to leave a child in a hot car. > [@](#): > > I’m glad to hear it. Nor would I. Neither of us would choose to rape another person How can you say that? You cannot definitively say you would never rape another person. Other people have done it, therefore anybody is capable of doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/85 "2017-03-24T16:39:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > No, they don’t. Not if it was unintentional. I see. So if I unintentionally kill somebody, I shouldn’t go to jail because of it? You know people go to jail for leaving their DOG in a hot car don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/86 "2017-03-24T16:45:41Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I see. So if I unintentionally kill somebody, I shouldn’t go to jail because of it? > > You know people go to jail for leaving their DOG in a hot car don’t you? You know that intent is a required element of any crime right? And I’m pretty sure that people who go to jail for leaving their pets in the car have been found to have done it intentionally. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/87 "2017-03-24T16:51:40Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > And I’m pretty sure that people who go to jail for leaving their pets in the car have been found to have done it intentionally. yeah, that’s strange. I’m not sure why they don’t just say “Well, I was really focusing on my shopping list and then my boss called. I just forgot he was back there!” Since according to you, that merits no punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/88 "2017-03-24T16:54:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > You know that intent is a required element of any crime right? I’m not a lawyer, but I’m fairly sure there are some type of charges that can be brought against someone for killing a person, even if they didn’t intend to kill that person. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/89 "2017-03-24T17:14:04Z")
In this article, a neuroscientist attempts to explain how this occurs. It’s a “memory failure [that] is the result of a competition between the brain’s “habit memory” system and its “prospective memory” system.” > **[Hot car deaths: How can parents forget a child in a car? | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/health/hot-car-deaths-explained/)** > > I have been studying the brain and memory since 1980, but I was baffled when a news reporter asked me in 2004 how parents can forget that their children are in the car with them. It seemed incomprehensible that parents could leave a child in a car... ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/90 "2017-03-24T17:25:37Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How can you say that? You cannot definitively say you would never rape another person. Other people have done it, therefore anybody is capable of doing it. This sounds like the tail end of a “gotcha” but surely we are discussing accidents and not conscious decisions? We aren’t remotely comparing like with like. If we are talking about accidental rape well OK, paint me a picture of how that can happen and we’ll discuss whether I think I couldn’t possibly do it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/91 "2017-03-24T17:35:31Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > yeah, that’s strange. I’m not sure why they don’t just say “Well, I was really focusing on my shopping list and then my boss called. I just forgot he was back there!” Since according to you, that merits no punishment. Yes. If that was what actually happened then there’s an absence of intent. Intent has to be proven in order for there to be criminal punishment. Even in negligence cases you have to show a reckless disregard in failing to exercise a duty of care. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/92 "2017-03-24T17:38:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How can you say that? You cannot definitively say you would never rape another person. Other people have done it, therefore anybody is capable of doing it. I’d like to quote this post again, just to emphasize the level of rationality that you’re bringing to this discussion. It’s a stupid post, and you should feel stupid for making it. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/93 "2017-03-24T17:39:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not a lawyer, but I’m fairly sure there are some type of charges that can be brought against someone for killing a person, even if they didn’t intend to kill that person. Generally only if they intended the action that caused the death. If you intentionally drink and drive and cause a fatal accident, you might be charged. If you are intentionally speeding and cause a fatal accident, you might be charged. If you intend to punch someone and it ends up being fatal, you will be charged with some variety of homicide, not just assault or battery. But those people who step on the gas instead of the brake by mistake and mow into a crowd of people - they don’t get charged because they didn’t intend to step on the gas. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/94 "2017-03-24T18:20:03Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m a fallible human being who just happens to have dodged multiple bullets by pure dumb luck. I don’t consider being in the 99.999999999% of parents who don’t leave their children in a hot car to die to be just “dumb luck”. > [@Novelty Bobble](#): > > My heart bleeds for those caught out and no, I don’t believe a prison sentence is necessary. It is completely possible to feel bad for a parent who child dies by their negligence and still believe they were negligent. The problem I have with the whole “it could happen to anyone” response is that it seems like an attempt to make an excuse for the conduct that led to the death of a child. Too often, these threads are just one side saying the parents screwed up, and the other side saying “yes, but everybody screws up”, and they just continue to talk past each other for pages. I sense that’s how this is going to go too. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/95 "2017-03-24T18:28:37Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > Generally only if they intended the action that caused the death. If you intentionally drink and drive and cause a fatal accident, you might be charged. If you are intentionally speeding and cause a fatal accident, you might be charged. If you intend to punch someone and it ends up being fatal, you will be charged with some variety of homicide, not just assault or battery. But those people who step on the gas instead of the brake by mistake and mow into a crowd of people - they don’t get charged because they didn’t intend to step on the gas. Thanks for the explanation. As I said, I’m not a lawyer, and was asking, not telling my opinion, on intent. Is this the reason why parents of children who get ahold of a gun in the house and shoot themselves or siblings are not charged with a crime? Or are they? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/96 "2017-03-24T18:30:49Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If we are talking about accidental rape well OK, paint me a picture of how that can happen and we’ll discuss whether I think I couldn’t possibly do it. [Here’s a guy](http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1758-5-things-i-learned-committing-campus-sexual-assault.html) who found out that he committed sexual assault after the fact. It happened to him, so it could happen to anyone, right? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/97 "2017-03-24T18:33:04Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’d like to quote this post again, just to emphasize the level of rationality that you’re bringing to this discussion. > > It’s a stupid post, and you should feel stupid for making it. Your idea that because some parents fucked up and left their child in a car means that everyone is capable of doing that is stupid. And you should feel stupid for thinking that. See how well calling people names works out? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/98 "2017-03-24T18:41:14Z")
> [@Skara\_Brae](#): > > In this article, a neuroscientist attempts to explain how this occurs. It’s a “memory failure [that] is the result of a competition between the brain’s “habit memory” system and its “prospective memory” system.” > > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/health/hot-car-deaths-explained/](http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/25/health/hot-car-deaths-explained/) Surprisingly absent from that story is the assertion that every human being on the planet is susceptible to “habit memory” overriding “prospective memory” to the extant that they leave a child in a hot car to die. Funny thing I’ve forgotten stuff in the morning because it was new. But you know what? It wasn’t my friggin’ child! That people equate forgetting a wallet, or forgetting to go to the grocery store with leaving your child in a hot car to die is extremely baffling to me. When I wake up in the morning, I don’t think “Hmmm…wonder where my wallet is?” or “Hey, I’ll make a mental note to go to the grocery store” But I damn sure think to myself “Where is my child, and is he safe?” And if I’m in the car with them, I constantly think “Hmmm…check my rear-view mirror. check my side mirrors. Check my child. Check my speed. Check my child” And If I’m in the store its “Get the cereal. check my child. Grab some eggs. Check my child” And If I’m on the phone with my boss yelling at me its “Man, this is brutal. check my child. “ok, i’ll be right in” Check my child” It’s a simple concept really. To me anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/99 "2017-03-24T18:47:22Z")
I sincerely hope it never happens to you, manson, and it almost certainly won’t. But I’m willing to bet that every parent whose child died in a hot car was as sure as you are that it wouldn’t happen to them right up until the day it did. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/100 "2017-03-24T18:58:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But I’m willing to bet that every parent whose child died in a hot car was as sure as you are that it wouldn’t happen to them right up until the day it did. And I bet that there are a lot of parents who don’t put as much thought to keeping their children safe as they should, and then when something bad happens, think to themselves “I don’t know how this happened! It’s not MY fault, because it could happen to anyone!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=6)