# Medicalizing irresponsibility: a term as ridiculous as "affluenza" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824 "2017-03-23T11:33:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/161 "2017-04-13T20:39:09Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’ll just address a couple points: > > Several. SEVERAL! Several people have not noticed the corpse of their baby in the back seat. SEVERAL PEOPLE! As opposed to the millions upon millions of people who did NOT do that. But somehow, instead of there being something wrong with those SEVERAL people, millions upon millions of other people must be capable of doing the same thing those SEVERAL stupid people did?? > > Well, I guess that since one foreman of a jury and A GUY WHO FORGOT HIS KID AT DAYCARE say it could happen to anyone, then they must be right! A guy who forgot his kid at daycare couldn’t POSSIBLY be biased on who is capable of forgetting their kid at daycare. :rolleyes: "In 2000, Chris Edwards, Terry Mack and Edward Modlin began to work on just such a product after one of their colleagues, Kevin Shelton, accidentally left his 9-month-old son to die in the parking lot of NASA Langley Research Center in Hampton, Va. The inventors patented a device with weight sensors and a keychain alarm. Based on aerospace technology, it was easy to use; it was relatively cheap, and it worked. Janette Fennell had high hopes for this product: The dramatic narrative behind it, she felt, and the fact that it came from NASA, created a likelihood of widespread publicity and public acceptance. That was five years ago. The device still isn’t on the shelves. The inventors could not find a commercial partner willing to manufacture it. One big problem was liability. If you made it, you could face enormous lawsuits if it malfunctioned and a child died. But another big problem was psychological: Marketing studies suggested it wouldn’t sell well. The problem is this simple: People think this could never happen to them." ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/162 "2017-04-13T21:29:27Z")
May as well give up. If there were a single instance of a baby waking up from its nap and crawling into the Amana, **manson1972** would be claiming s/he defrosts the freezer every ten minutes. If one kid escaped from day care and crawled into the gondola of a hot-air balloon that later became untethered, **manson1972** ’s parental routine would have always included regular calls to the FAA. God knows why, but you are not going to convince him/her that an event can be both rare and random. In an unfunny version of the old joke, s/he thinks it’s the banana in her ear that keeps the tigers away. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/163 "2017-04-14T13:49:38Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > May as well give up. If there were a single instance of a baby waking up from its nap and crawling into the Amana, **manson1972** would be claiming s/he defrosts the freezer every ten minutes. If one kid escaped from day care and crawled into the gondola of a hot-air balloon that later became untethered, **manson1972** ’s parental routine would have always included regular calls to the FAA. This is pretty funny > [@](#): > > God knows why, but you are not going to convince him/her that an event can be both rare and random What? I agree that an event can be both rare and random. What I don’t agree with is parents, who were so inattentive/stupid to leave their infant child in a car, somehow have credibility when they say “Well, it could happen to anyone!” No, it cannot. It happens to stupid people who do stupid things in the course of paying more attention to things besides their infant children. And in your rush to feel sorry for stupid people who left their child to die, you somehow find it abnormal for parents to worry about their infant children throughout a day. And further, you ascribe situations that a very few stupid people have brought upon themselves as “something that could happen to anyone” and even go so far as to compare cell phones, glasses, and keys to a human infant. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/164 "2017-04-14T19:53:53Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > And further, you ascribe situations that a very few stupid people have brought upon themselves as “something that could happen to anyone” and even go so far as to compare cell phones, glasses, and keys to a human infant. Good luck with that. Ah, so the neuroscientist says that on an unconscious, cellular level, our memory can’t prioritize things by importance, but you know he’s wrong. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Several. SEVERAL! Several people have not noticed the corpse of their baby in the back seat. SEVERAL PEOPLE! As opposed to the millions upon millions of people who did NOT do that. But somehow, instead of there being something wrong with those SEVERAL people, millions upon millions of other people must be capable of doing the same thing those SEVERAL stupid people did?? I’m sure if you put those several people in an MRI, they’d have lazy brains that didn’t love their children enough. It’s just good science. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/165 "2017-04-14T20:13:19Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Ah, so the neuroscientist says that on an unconscious, cellular level, our memory can’t prioritize things by importance, but you know he’s wrong I didn’t say he was wrong. I just don’t care what happens at an unconscious level, since I make a conscious decision to know where my infant child is located. > [@](#): > > I’m sure if you put those several people in an MRI, they’d have lazy brains that didn’t love their children enough. It’s just good science. Who knows? Did they try it? Do you honestly doubt that there are people in the world who are more absent-minded then the rest of the people? You don’t think there are people who are more forgetful than others? I guess everyone on the planet is the exact same when it comes to priorities, attentiveness, awareness, or ability to pay attention. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/166 "2017-04-16T01:57:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I didn’t say he was wrong. I just don’t care what happens at an unconscious level, since I make a conscious decision to know where my infant child is located. As the neuroscientist in the Washington Post article explains, under a combination of stress and routine activity, the conscious mind can be overwritten by the basal ganglia. You can’t choose for this not to occur. > [@](#): > > Who knows? Did they try it? I was mocking your attempt to moralize brain function, but mockery requires self-awareness from the subject to be effective. Oh well. > [@](#): > > Do you honestly doubt that there are people in the world who are more absent-minded then the rest of the people? You don’t think there are people who are more forgetful than others? I guess everyone on the planet is the exact same when it comes to priorities, attentiveness, awareness, or ability to pay attention. :rolleyes: I know that people who’ve closely studied this particular phenomenon haven’t found a correlation with general absent-mindedness. The correlating factors are “stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/167 "2017-04-17T02:57:44Z")
[QUOTE=manson1972] What? I agree that an event can be both rare and random. [/QUOTE] No, you don’t, and here’s where your ability to judge yourself begins to collapse. [QUOTE=manson1972] Several. SEVERAL! Several people have not noticed the corpse of their baby in the back seat. SEVERAL PEOPLE! As opposed to the millions upon millions of people who did NOT do that. But somehow, instead of there being something wrong with those SEVERAL people, millions upon millions of other people must be capable of doing the same thing those SEVERAL stupid people did?? [/QUOTE] There’s you, claiming rarity is evidence of negligence, i.e., not random. But you said you _could_ grasp that concept! It’s almost as if your brain doesn’t always behave the way you think it does. Relax. It is very unlikely that your hypothetical children will be harmed by being left in a car…because it is very unlikely that _any_ child, even the child of the worst parents you can imagine, even worse than you, will be harmed in that way. If you don’t manage to kill your kids that way, in other words, it ain’t because you are in any way special. You are, however, arrogantly self-regarding to the extent that no reasonable person would believe your mind is on your hypothetical child even a small fraction of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/168 "2017-04-17T13:35:04Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > No, you don’t, and here’s where your ability to judge yourself begins to collapse. > > There’s you, claiming rarity is evidence of negligence, i.e., not random. But you said you _could_ grasp that concept! It’s almost as if your brain doesn’t always behave the way you think it does. Perhaps you don’t know how to read? I said I agree that AN event can be rare and random. I didn’t say that the event you quoted was one of them. > [@](#): > > Relax. I am relaxed. Knowing that I didn’t leave my infant child in a car to die. Perhaps you should relax? Maybe you left your kid in your car and are now trying to say that ANYONE can do it, instead of taking responsibility for the fact that you are stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Maurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Maurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maurie)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/169 "2017-04-19T17:24:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > When I wake up in the morning, I don’t think “Hmmm…wonder where my wallet is?” or “Hey, I’ll make a mental note to go to the grocery store” But I damn sure think to myself “Where is my child, and is he safe?” > > And if I’m in the car with them, I constantly think “Hmmm…check my rear-view mirror. check my side mirrors. Check my child. Check my speed. Check my child” > > And If I’m in the store its “Get the cereal. check my child. Grab some eggs. Check my child” > > And If I’m on the phone with my boss yelling at me its “Man, this is brutal. check my child. “ok, i’ll be right in” Check my child” I think you’re misunderstanding how the blip works. It isn’t “Hmmm…check my rear-view mirror. Check my child. Check my side mirrors. _blip_ Completely forget about baby’s existence. Check my speed. Go into work leaving my forgotten-about child to die.” It’s “Hmmm…check my rear-view mirror. Check my child. Check my side mirrors. _blip_ Think about child _who is safe at daycare_. Check my speed. Go into work while child is safe at daycare.” > [@Slash1972](#): > > When your baby is in daycare, NOBODY thinks “Hmmm, wonder what junior is doing right now? Hope he is not crying too much.”?? You just put your baby out of your mind for 8 hours? Not a single thought? That’s the part you aren’t getting. Nobody is saying that the parents didn’t think about their child for 8 hours. The baby isn’t forgotten, that isn’t the point at all. What has happened is, the parent believes the child is at daycare and goes about thinking of them just as they, and you, would while they actually are at daycare. Do you go check your car every 20 minutes while at work to make sure the baby is really at daycare? That confidence you have when your baby is elsewhere is the same confidence these parents had that their baby was elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/170 "2017-04-19T19:23:09Z")
> [@Maurie](#): > > IThat confidence you have when your baby is elsewhere is the same confidence these parents had that their baby was elsewhere. Yes, and those parents were stupid. So what? Trying to shift blame by saying “could happen to anyone” instead of just saying those particular parents were stupid is appalling to me. ---
**Author:** ![Maurie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Maurie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maurie)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/171 "2017-04-20T14:46:09Z")
Oh. I see. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/172 "2017-04-20T18:36:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > What I don’t agree with is parents, who were so inattentive/stupid to leave their infant child in a car, somehow have credibility when they say “Well, it could happen to anyone!” No, it cannot. It happens to stupid people who do stupid things in the course of paying more attention to things besides their infant children. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Do you honestly doubt that there are people in the world who are more absent-minded then the rest of the people? You don’t think there are people who are more forgetful than others? I guess everyone on the planet is the exact same when it comes to priorities, attentiveness, awareness, or ability to pay attention. :rolleyes: Some people just have a tolerance for sloppiness. Other people do not. Sully couldn’t leave a kid in a car. Chuck Yeager couldn’t leave a kid in a car. My oldest and best friend of nearly 50 years could not leave a kid in a car. Some people are just different. This guy (a former airline pilot) is so mentally disciplined and focused in this thought process, that, if he had kids, I can say with 100% surety he could not ever leave them in a car. Call it anal, obsessive, crazy or whatever, but it is a mental discipline that few people have. Further, he wouldn’t allow himself to get into a situation that would cause other, less disciplined or careless folks to let a kid die in a car. So, I reject the notion “that it could happen to anybody”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/173 "2017-04-20T18:41:44Z")
But I also got to say, this guy is NO FUN to go boating with! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/174 "2017-04-20T20:27:02Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Some people just have a tolerance for sloppiness. Other people do not. > > Sully couldn’t leave a kid in a car. Chuck Yeager couldn’t leave a kid in a car. > > My oldest and best friend of nearly 50 years could not leave a kid in a car. Some people are just different. This guy (a former airline pilot) is so mentally disciplined and focused in this thought process, that, if he had kids, I can say with 100% surety he could not ever leave them in a car. Call it anal, obsessive, crazy or whatever, but it is a mental discipline that few people have. > > Further, he wouldn’t allow himself to get into a situation that would cause other, less disciplined or careless folks to let a kid die in a car. > > So, I reject the notion “that it could happen to anybody”. "On the day Balfour forgot Bryce in the car, she had been up much of the night, first babysitting for a friend who had to take her dog to an emergency vet clinic, then caring for Bryce, who was cranky with a cold. Because the baby was also tired, he uncharacteristically dozed in the car, so he made no noise. Because Balfour was planning to bring Bryce’s usual car seat to the fire station to be professionally installed, Bryce was positioned in a different car seat that day, not behind the passenger but behind the driver, and was thus not visible in the rear-view mirror. Because the family’s second car was on loan to a relative, Balfour drove her husband to work that day, meaning the diaper bag was in the back, not on the passenger seat, as usual, where she could see it. Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell, stressed, solving other people’s problems. Because the babysitter had a new phone, it didn’t yet contain Balfour’s office phone number, only her cell number, meaning that when the sitter phoned to wonder why Balfour hadn’t dropped Bryce off that morning, it rang unheard in Balfour’s pocketbook. The holes, all of them, aligned." ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/175 "2017-04-20T21:33:26Z")
The excuses, all of them, aligned. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/176 "2017-04-20T23:06:17Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Because of a phone conversation with a young relative in trouble, and another with her boss about a crisis at work, Balfour spent most of the trip on her cell I particularly like this part of that tragic narrative. She just HAD to be on her cell phone while driving around with her infant child in the car. Could happen to anyone! They should pass some laws against driving while on a cell phone. Maybe this tragedy could be prevented. Or, we could just say it’s not her fault because it could happen to ANYBODY! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/177 "2017-04-21T11:22:49Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Some people just have a tolerance for sloppiness. Other people do not. > > Sully couldn’t leave a kid in a car. Chuck Yeager couldn’t leave a kid in a car. > > My oldest and best friend of nearly 50 years could not leave a kid in a car. Some people are just different. This guy (a former airline pilot) is so mentally disciplined and focused in this thought process, that, if he had kids, I can say with 100% surety he could not ever leave them in a car. Call it anal, obsessive, crazy or whatever, but it is a mental discipline that few people have. > > Further, he wouldn’t allow himself to get into a situation that would cause other, less disciplined or careless folks to let a kid die in a car. > > So, I reject the notion “that it could happen to anybody”. This is a joke, right? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/178 "2017-04-21T19:52:14Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > So, I reject the notion “that it could happen to anybody”. " **It happens to the chronically absent-minded and to the fanatically organized** , to the college-educated and to the marginally literate. " ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/179 "2017-05-02T19:10:55Z")
Just for example: an Air Marshal - not who you’d expect to be unorganized - forgot a gun in an airplane bathroom. > **[Air marshal leaves gun in airplane bathroom | CNN Politics](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politics/air-marshal-gun-airplane-bathroom/)** > > A federal air marshal on a transatlantic flight left her loaded service weapon in the airplane's bathroom, where it was discovered by a passenger who gave it to a crew member before it was returned to the federal agent, CNN has learned. About 10 years ago (or more) a spy from MI5 forgot a very important laptop with secret spy stuff on it in the subway. Not who you expect to be badly organized. Because moralizing doesn’t change biological facts, that the human brain can only hold 8 items at the same time, and new facts push out other items regardless of their emotional importance. It’ like trying to pour 1 gallon of water into a 1 pint container: it will spill, and you can’t influence which part spills by colouring it “important”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824/180 "2017-05-02T19:19:35Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Just for example: an Air Marshal - not who you’d expect to be unorganized - forgot a gun in an airplane bathroom. > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politics/air-marshal-gun-airplane-bathroom/](http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/21/politics/air-marshal-gun-airplane-bathroom/) > > About 10 years ago (or more) a spy from MI5 forgot a very important laptop with secret spy stuff on it in the subway. Not who you expect to be badly organized. > > Because moralizing doesn’t change biological facts, that the human brain can only hold 8 items at the same time, and new facts push out other items regardless of their emotional importance. It’ like trying to pour 1 gallon of water into a 1 pint container: it will spill, and you can’t influence which part spills by colouring it “important”. Yes, because a gun or a laptop is as important as a human infant :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/medicalizing-irresponsibility-a-term-as-ridiculous-as-affluenza/782824.md?page=10)